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BUF gene

Actually, I think Rich is just sick and tired of people coming here and then saying "This site sucks so much and I hate it here." At least we're not asked to avoid conflict, threads do not disappear into thin air and are very rarely locked. You probably couldn't even _have_ this debate elsewhere.
 
Nanci said:
Actually, I think Rich is just sick and tired of people coming here and then saying "This site sucks so much and I hate it here."
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Maybe it would be a better way to think about the reasons, instead of acting that more and more people think the same way!
 
JimGERcream said:
ok, lets summarize this.

don't say anything against anyone of this forum. critism is theoretical allowed, but not practical. If someone voices public critism he will be banned.

sorry, but this seems to be normal when I read your statements.
I know Arjan pretty good and I know that he's a VERY GOOD guy, when he voices critism he has his reasons to do this. I really wonder why you handle this the easy way instead of looking for the dialog....and I know I'm not the only one who's thinking this!

my 2 cents
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In case you have missed it, there is a forum on this site called "Discussions about this site" -> http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=6. Go ahead and take a WILD guess concerning why I put a forum of that nature on this site..... :poke:

I will assume anyone SERIOUSLY interested in engaging in a dialog about the state of this site and the membership participation will do so in THAT forum. Anyone pissing and moaning elsewhere will be considered as simply trolling and attempting to cause disruption throughout this site, and not seriously interested in making constructive steps to make the situation better. They will, therefore, be treated as such.

Seems to me people have complained in the past about trolling of this nature that went unchecked, and yet when it IS checked, some others will complain as well ABOUT the "checking". Well, sorry about that, but it's just an imperfect world we live in, but I reserve the right to try to make THIS particular corner of that world the best that I can. I SERIOUSLY doubt anyone will ever find a statement to the effect that I expect anything I do will ever please absolutely EVERYONE involved.

But if by chance you do find that perfect message board in that perfect world, please send us a postcard........... :rolleyes:
 
mvervest said:
I se this became a hot item again ,the buff gene , since it was produced in Chuck's guide .
I had them for years , also the orange , but quit because of all the discussions .
Now , I'm back in it ,trying to breed it this season .
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Be sure to keep us updated!

CaptBogart said:
I think by the time they get over here, if they ever do, the whole thing will have been worked out. I think those who've been here for awhile have seen this time after time with every new morph because it's always something, line bred, hybrid, etc... Just look at the controversy over naming new morphs that we get every year...
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This is what I think too. I'd just like to see some more results, from different breeders, which I'm sure will come with time.
 
Don't try to please everyone Rich, you will end up very tired and wondering why you built the site to begin with and I would be very sad to see that happen. It is your site and if you feel someone needs to be banned then do it. The way I see it you are the equivilent of the President on this site, unless you actually harm someone or do something illegal I see no reason to impeach. (someone mentioned politics so I could not help the metaphor) Especailly since you gave an outlet for such feelings, a very fair thing in and of itself.

As to the Buf gene, I believe its real, but I also feel that the same testing that found that ultra was a seperate gene should be done in order to prove or disprove if it is co-dominant or whatever with caramel. Seems to me it is. You see caramel, buf and oranges. Who is to say that oranges are not the equivelent of ultramel? You have ultra, amel and ultramel so why not buf, caramel, and orange in the same thinking?? Anyone try breeding the oranges to each other, a buf and a caramel? Wouldn't that help?
 
I'm not going to join this discussion. I don't see the point.
 
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carnivorouszoo said:
As to the Buf gene, I believe its real, but I also feel that the same testing that found that ultra was a seperate gene should be done in order to prove or disprove if it is co-dominant or whatever with caramel. Seems to me it is. You see caramel, buf and oranges. Who is to say that oranges are not the equivelent of ultramel? You have ultra, amel and ultramel so why not buf, caramel, and orange in the same thinking?? Anyone try breeding the oranges to each other, a buf and a caramel? Wouldn't that help?
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The ultramel question is very neatly answered as well IM (humble and still nooby) O.

Let me ask you all, is there any ethical (or other type, lol) of reason I shouldn't copy and paste here the argument from there?
 
I'd love for you to do that as I obviously missed it or maybe felt that it wasn't quite answered. Earlier someone replied the thinking was sound but he couldn't do it because he doesn't have any of these. (Bufs that is) I have yet to see anything to say that there is in no way any possibility that it could not be similar to ultra.
 
I saw nowhere that said they had tried breeding two orange to themselves although I notice they said that orange was a buf amel. How did they prove that? Did they breed an orange to an amel het for nothing? I seriously think it would be conclusive to breed two orange together. Then an orange to a caramel, then an orange to an amel. And an orange to a buf. All homo to the colors suggested with no other colors at play if at all possible. If this were going on in the US I would be glad to lend a hand in breeding trials. As it is not I can only make reasonable suggestions based on the info set before me. I believe that the breedings I suggested would tell a LOT about the genes at play here.
 
tom e said:
Doesn't this portion rule out ultramel though?
If orange was a funny looking butter and buf a funny looking ultra or ultramel how could their crossing be some that were niether?
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I think you misunderstood me. I never said they ARE ultramel I said that maybe the genes are similar in how they react. Amel, Ultramel, Ultra similar to Caramel, Orange, Buf.

I believe the pairings used are aa=amel. ua=ultramel, uu=ultra? So it would be cc=caramel, cb=orange, bb=buf. Or something to that affect.
 
carnivorouszoo said:
I think you misunderstood me. I never said they ARE ultramel I said that maybe the genes are similar in how they react. Amel, Ultramel, Ultra similar to Caramel, Orange, Buf.
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Yep, I did misunderstand you. But that means that we're still looking at something new just that we don't know everything about it yet, which is all anyone is claiming right? Unless I'm misunderstanding something again.
He says for instance that it isn't ruled out whether this is an allele to caramel, which WOULD be something like Ultra (an allele to Amel..).

Maybe this is selfish of me to hijack for my own edification, lol. I'm an inquiring mind.
 
You know what? After reading the explanation above (and never having made it all the way through any of the buf and orange threads here) I am still confused. What is the relationship of orange to buf?
 
OK, I've spent some time reading and re-reading the information and the more condensed versions. I have also looked at the few remaining photos that are available. I have come to a personal conclusion that there is definitely something other than caramel going on and that there is enough evidence to support the buf gene. However, I would like to see more photos of these snakes, especially the comparison ones with caramel and butter as some of the photos I saw show a more obvious difference while others did not. I would also like to see some adult photos as I simply couldn't find many.
 
kathylove said:
Chuck posted a condensed (and a bit easier to follow) version of the info which led him to decide to list Buf in the Morph Guide. You can read it for yourself and make your own decision. Or you can post more questions or comments if you wish. It is here:

http://.com/forum/showthread.php?p=65388

There are other threads / sites by the original parties involved, but I have only glanced at them so far. They are:

http://www..com/forum/showthread.php?p=58980#post58980

And from the breeder (in German and English):

http://home.tiscali.nl/~sb085434/lutino.htm

Hope it helps people to come to their own decisions.
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Thanks for the links
 
mvervest said:
I take my camera now and try to make a good shoot . He's together now with a female fire .
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Not bad to be back in 10 minutes with not too bad pictures , resizing and posting :laugh:
 

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