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Petco Nightmare (Cohabbing not so great)
- Thread starter Sanebedlam
- Start date
Pretty1234me
Bella rocks!
Yeah me too. I see your point, but Rosa Parks and Cohabbing aren't on the same page and never will be. Anyhow, I'm not trying to argue with anyone I've shared my opinion. I'm leaving it alone.
Jrgh17
Are we there yet?
Kai-
I get what your saying. I do. Point of fact is that this is a public forum. That means that as long as members stick to the rules, they may voice whatever opinions they believe. As long as it doesn't cross the realm into spam, I can beat my cohab position like a dead horse.
Nanci pretty much said this already, but I'm going to expand on it: I have asked people who cohab why they've chosen to do it. To date, I have not received what I believe to be a valid answer. The closest thing to a valid answer I've heard is to save money. However, if you chose to "cohab responsibly" you would already have another setup available in the event the snakes need to be separated. Since you would need another setup, you're actually NOT saving any money at all.
Part of my personality (and I consider this one of the good parts) is that I care about animals. Consequentially, I don't really care if the owner gets offended. I have ABSOLUTELY no interest in making sure everyone is happy. It is my personal opinion that anyone who cohabs is putting their own interests above the health of the animal.
I have found, personally, that very few people who swear by cohabbing have many snakes. It doesn't prove anything, but it is pretty interesting. I have also found that when I ask why people cohab, they respond, and then I respond to their comments, they tend not to address my concerns. The only reason I can come up with for why is that they have no decent response.
So please, if you cohab and you feel you have excellent reasons for doing so, write up a long post with all of your information and supporting evidence. I would love to hear why people believe that cohab is helping their snakes and the evidence they feel supports it. <-- No sarcasm in that sentence.
I get what your saying. I do. Point of fact is that this is a public forum. That means that as long as members stick to the rules, they may voice whatever opinions they believe. As long as it doesn't cross the realm into spam, I can beat my cohab position like a dead horse.
Nanci pretty much said this already, but I'm going to expand on it: I have asked people who cohab why they've chosen to do it. To date, I have not received what I believe to be a valid answer. The closest thing to a valid answer I've heard is to save money. However, if you chose to "cohab responsibly" you would already have another setup available in the event the snakes need to be separated. Since you would need another setup, you're actually NOT saving any money at all.
Part of my personality (and I consider this one of the good parts) is that I care about animals. Consequentially, I don't really care if the owner gets offended. I have ABSOLUTELY no interest in making sure everyone is happy. It is my personal opinion that anyone who cohabs is putting their own interests above the health of the animal.
I have found, personally, that very few people who swear by cohabbing have many snakes. It doesn't prove anything, but it is pretty interesting. I have also found that when I ask why people cohab, they respond, and then I respond to their comments, they tend not to address my concerns. The only reason I can come up with for why is that they have no decent response.
So please, if you cohab and you feel you have excellent reasons for doing so, write up a long post with all of your information and supporting evidence. I would love to hear why people believe that cohab is helping their snakes and the evidence they feel supports it. <-- No sarcasm in that sentence.
Silvergrin
New member
Yes and no... after a certain point though, if the individual is clear that their situation is sub-ideal but choose to continue anyway, it can be more benificial to the animal to move past the cohab issue and try to help them with other questions they are willing to work with.
I agree that I'd rather not see this place degenerate into completely neutered language (sarcasm is the only thing that makes the internet tolerable!), but there's a point where it's probably best to move on.
(arg, we've degenerated into arguing over how to argue!)
And to completely kill the thread:
Neither did Hitler! XP
Pretty1234me
Bella rocks!
Hmmmm....you're right from all the reading I've done I haven't seen an arguement that shows how snakes can benefit from cohabing...I'm not presently cohabing my snakes and am not sure if I will or not. The only thing I've seen (which wasn't on this site) is that cornsnakes have been found cohabing in the wild (the website didn't alude to this being a normal thing though...and I don't think it is normal due to their solitary nature). I wish I knew what source this was from and if they were credible..maybe I can find it again in the future and share it with folks. I'm super open minded and always invite new opinions...before I wasn't for cohabing..but after that article...I thought.."well if it can occur in the wild..maybe some can corns can cohabitate together successfully??"....
I also agree with you that it is a public forum and people are free to say what they want within the forum rules and I totally get that everyone genuinely cares about not only their animals but other peoples animals ( as they have the best intentions at heart).. No doubt they have plenty of great advice to give as well..maybe I need to get over how people try to get their point across and move on.. *I'm missed yoga class tonight..I could have benefited from it*:shrugs:
Silvergrin
New member
Nanci: Ha!!!
Actually, I must admit I've wondered if snakes can get bored; I know we can't assume they have the same feelings/emotions we do, but wouldn't it also be arrogant to assume they're so simple that they can't appreciate a bit of (safe) stimulus? Or even that they might possibly enjoy company, if given enough room? Of course the ideal would be to take a snake out and play with it...
It's easy to prove the bad consequences of cohabing, hard to prove if there's any benefits, and likely outweight any ephemeral "possible" benefits I can think of.
I remember reading an article somewhere about how rattlesnakes were significantly more like to "stand and defend" than run away when babies were around. I do wonder, if someone did a study where they had several tanks, exactly the same as far as one could make them, that were connected, and let two cornsnakes live in them, would they find the snakes apart or together? If they were together, would this be an indication that corns "like" living together?
I think some cohabers do give more space to their snake than some breeders do, though I don't know if it's more space per snake (like, more than double for two, etc).
Actually, I must admit I've wondered if snakes can get bored; I know we can't assume they have the same feelings/emotions we do, but wouldn't it also be arrogant to assume they're so simple that they can't appreciate a bit of (safe) stimulus? Or even that they might possibly enjoy company, if given enough room? Of course the ideal would be to take a snake out and play with it...
It's easy to prove the bad consequences of cohabing, hard to prove if there's any benefits, and likely outweight any ephemeral "possible" benefits I can think of.
I remember reading an article somewhere about how rattlesnakes were significantly more like to "stand and defend" than run away when babies were around. I do wonder, if someone did a study where they had several tanks, exactly the same as far as one could make them, that were connected, and let two cornsnakes live in them, would they find the snakes apart or together? If they were together, would this be an indication that corns "like" living together?
I think some cohabers do give more space to their snake than some breeders do, though I don't know if it's more space per snake (like, more than double for two, etc).
I don't condone cohabing, never have done it myself and never will, but one guy on a boa forum claims that two of his boas, that had been raised together in the same enclosure, began to refuse food and I believe become ill when seperated. When they were put back together they began to act normaly again. Like I said, I don't condone cohabing, just thought this was interesting. What do y'all think? Could the snakes actually have missed each other or is some other explanation?
Jrgh17
Are we there yet?
If they were separated, they were probably moved into different enclosures. Depending on the type of boa, they could easily become stressed by the environment change. To convince me, he would have to be able to repeat the results over a long period of time - and at different times of year.
To the OP, Have you reported this in any way to corporate? I work at a petco (in the grooming salon) and corporate, atleast in my district, takes that sort of thing pretty seriously. 3 care alerts on a managers watch and they get fired is the official policy. This would definitely be a care alert, heck maybe even two or three. Here's a form you can fill out. There's also a phone number on that page.
I've never seen that happen at my store, and it doesn't actualy happen often in any case. So if it happened twice at the same time at the same place they must be doing something really stupid. Like not separating them for feeding, or forgetting to feed them all together
I've never seen that happen at my store, and it doesn't actualy happen often in any case. So if it happened twice at the same time at the same place they must be doing something really stupid. Like not separating them for feeding, or forgetting to feed them all together
snakewispera snr
The Devils Advocate
I always thought there was an un-written rule here that you can't post miss information as a newb might see it an think it's o.k. Like if I said its O.K. to change the water every month as the don't drink much, or keep your temps at 65-70 and they're easier to catch.
So can't this pro-co-hab thing be relegated to the miss-information pile and people warned about persistently banging on that it fine. After all it has been said that experienced keepers have managed it, but some of the experienced newbs are calling it now and it gets boring.
After all snakes are cheap and the set up costs so if a new newb keeps reading that its possible how tempted are they to get that second snake
MIKE
So can't this pro-co-hab thing be relegated to the miss-information pile and people warned about persistently banging on that it fine. After all it has been said that experienced keepers have managed it, but some of the experienced newbs are calling it now and it gets boring.
After all snakes are cheap and the set up costs so if a new newb keeps reading that its possible how tempted are they to get that second snake
MIKE
Nanci
Alien Lover
That isn't cohabitating! That's competing for the same optimal space at that moment. If snakes liked being together, out in the wild, then why don't we see them hunting in pairs or packs, or sunning in the road in packs, or wriggling across the bike trail in packs? The only time you find them together is when they have taken shelter under the same piece of tin. They probably don't even realize another snake is under there.
Pretty1234me
Bella rocks!
I wouldn't expect to see snakes hunting or sunning together, etc. because those aren't typical characteristics of solitary animals. I don't know the full story behind what I read as this was some time ago and I wasn't searching for information on cohabitating at that time. What I had seen was this guy holding two corns together and a paragraph beside it explaining that he found them under the same rock together. I may have jumped to an early conclusion after reading that. I assumed that they were "tolerating one another as best they could /peacefully". The guy could have very well seen what you mentioned ("optimal space at that moment" / snakes not realizing that another snake was there) and interpreted it as something else. I tried to find it y-day but couldn't remember how I even stumbled across the dang website in the first place...
Just for clarification, if anyone has misunderstood me, I've never denied that noncohabitaters don't have valid concerns because they do.
snake5007
SOLVE LORA INFERNIS!
ZoologyMajor
100% Addicted
It is a shame that the employees at most of those places just don't seem to care. Lucky for the snakes at the Petco by me they have an awesome employee that takes great care of them and actually cares that they are treated right. Petsmart by me also feeds theirs crickets..I guess cuz they don't sell the feeder mice at all.. poor snakes.
ZoologyMajor
100% Addicted
All of a sudden I feel like singing "It's a Small World" hehe
jamay
"Serpent Science"
I work at a local pet store and have since 2000. We have always housed corn snake hatchlings together. Right now there are 10-12 together in a 20g tank. Not once have we had the Petco incidence occur. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but our animals are treated well and cared for without negligence (even those stupid anoles that I hate so much). So I'm not worried about it. If I am going to worry about anything, it will be for the all the rodents that are bred just to be killed.
susang
New member
Are your snakes vegetarians?