Two Snakes one Viv

Hi,

We've had our new snakes for a couple of days, I know two snakes in one vivarium is a highly disputed topic and can go wrong, but the seller assured us he keeps most of his corns in pairs and as long as they are the same size and one doesn't outgrow the other there shouldn't be a problem. We've but double the hides in the vivarium so they don't feel too crowded too.

BUT

I've noticed they keep ending up close to each other sharing the same space, what I don't know is if that is because they are okay with each other or if one is pushing the other out of the 'best spot'. We haven't tried feeding them yet so don't know if they are going to refuse food.

Any tips?

Rgds,
Bex

P.S. Neither or the corns have been sexed, at what age can they mate?

Honestly, it would be best to separate them. Hatchlings can become cannibals so sometimes you'll find 1 big fat corn instead of 2. They also do compete for the best spot, the best hide, which adds stress because they are naturally solitary animals. And as far as breeding, a female shouldn't be bred until at least 3 years and suitable size, but co-habbed snakes can try it on as early as a year old. Far too early to be safe, you could end up losing the female to egg-binding or just because her body isn't mature enough to support her being gravid and stay healthy.

My best suggestion is to separate them so they both can have their own "best spot" Right now the are competing for that spot and others. It is only going to get worse. Snakes are solitary creatures in nature. They don't run in packs or in groups.

Yeah I am getting that feeling about separating them, specially not knowing if they are the same gender.

If they have a vivarium each can we just feed them in their home rather than pulling them out or is the feeding out of the vivarium a thing about not associating your hand with food so you don't get bitten.

Also, if they have their own vivs. If they regurge or have iffy poo you will know which one it is. If one gets sick it wont get the other sick etc etc etc

Thanks, might see what we can do about getting a second vivarium, though its not easy to do until the weekend cos we can't get time off work when the shops open.

Actually the place we got this Viv is closed until Thursday.

Yes seperate them asap.

You can feed them in thier viv's if you want to. I've never really seen any correlation between feeding in the viv and "cage aggression" in corns.

About the only thing to really worry about with in-viv feeding is substrate ingestion (it getting stuck to the mouse and swallowed by the snake). Making sure that the mouse is dry and/or feeding on a deli cup lid or other solid surface placed into the viv can help to mitigate that risk.

Note that I'd still use tongs or something to handle the mouse just so you're not having mouse smell on your hands while they are close to the snake, but other than that you'll be OK with feeding in the viv if you want to.

Or you could still take them out one at a time and feed in seperate feeding bins. That's what I do, but I only have 3 total to take care of. I use thier kritter cages [where they get put while I'm cleaning thier cages during the full cleaning times] as feeding bins (without substrate) when not using them as holding bins.

I was thinking about feeding them outside, cos you have to handle them to get them back in but that can cause them to regurgitate?

If you put them back in their viv right after eating, there is very little regurge risk. Just don't fuss them too much. Eat, then straight back in when done.

Bexini said:

Thanks, might see what we can do about getting a second vivarium, though its not easy to do until the weekend cos we can't get time off work when the shops open.

Click to expand...

You could look into getting a divider for now instead of a second viv if we're talking aquariums. Then when the snakes get bigger you just take out the divider and get the second one another cage.

Thanks to everyone, sorry for sounding like a bad carer. We just got so excited in the shop and the seller convinced us two in a viv would be just fine but now I can't stop worrying and keep feeling like I should have done more research before sticking two together. We'll have to separate them when we can get a new Viv Thursday.

If something goes wrong before then won't forgive myself.

Bexini said:

Thanks to everyone, sorry for sounding like a bad carer. We just got so excited in the shop and the seller convinced us two in a viv would be just fine but now I can't stop worrying and keep feeling like I should have done more research before sticking two together. We'll have to separate them when we can get a new Viv Thursday.

Click to expand...

It's alright. You came here and asked questions which shows you are a great caregiver. So many people get dodgy advice from pet stores and do not realize it. You are making the right changes and your pets will lead long healthy lives with you. People on this site won't steer you wrong. Lots of good information on here.

Wow, I really commend you for coming on here, asking questions, and taking our advice.

All too often, new keepers are swayed by the people at the pet store who more often that not have ONE interest, and that interest is cash. They don't usually have any interest in caring properly for the animal. And I'm not faulting them for not knowing, I'm faulting them for not TRYING to know.

But good for you, you will feel much better once they have been separated! (And I'm sure the snakes will, too!)

By the way...we really like pictures around here!

If they stop hiding long enough will post Pics, my other half is going for a new viv this morning and we'll try and feed them tonight, though suspect they'll refuse after the change.

For a full round up of the stupidity or contested ideas we were given:

- Two unsexed corn snakes of about 2 months old, one with its care sheet the other one the sheet had gone missing.

- No warning that if they turned out to be opposite sexes that the female could be permenanetly injured by them mating because it was too early for her to brumate.

- One carry box had some kind of soft lining, a hide and a bottle cap of water; the other just had the snake and a bottle cap of water (said snake writhed around a lot and was far more petrified on the way home)

- One wooden vivarium with sliding glass front of about 26"across/14.5"deep/16"up (which we have since been advised is a little too large and the snake could hurt its note trying to get out between the two panes of glass.)

- A heat matt of unknown wattage that would 'be about right' at a full uncontrolled voltage (turns out it was abouy 5 to 10 degrees too high which is why neither snake would go near the bottom of the viv on that side) allong with a 15watt daylight bulb for extra heat and the day/night cycle (which also seems to be disputed)

- He didn't advise us to buy any extra hides as far as I can recall, but we knew to at least to put some extra in, made some out of loo roll inners when we got home.

Think thats is...

So, we now have two new Vivariums and setups with no bulbs and thermostated heat mats and the viv we bought is either going back allong with a complaint or being kept for when they are a bit larger and we can put just the one of them back in it.

P.S. Since we moved them again today won't try to feed or handle them until Friday.

Good for you! While I don't expect most pet stores to be corn snake experts, they should know basic care if they are going to sell the animal. I think returning the oversized viv as well as handing them a correct care sheet is a great idea. Perhaps even highlight the areas they are giving bad advice about. If they are a conscientious shop, they will appreciate it. It couldn't hurt to attach a few pictures of hatchling corns either during or after cannibalism.