Additional Info On Mice Direct Recall

I spoke with Jenea Wood last night about the recall. She is a distributor. She is also a CS.com member. This is what Jenea told me:

There isn't anything wrong with Mice Direct's Rodents. FDA has been investigating links between handling Rodents and getting Salmonella. There isn't any case against Mice Direct specifically - just general cases linking the handling of rats/mice & getting Salmonella. They chose to start their investigation at the Mice Direct facility. There are 17 cases linked with frozen feeders, not 17 cases linked with Mice Direct.

It is a fact that Mice & Rats carry Salmonella, so it is no surprise that the FDA found Salmonella in Mice Direct's products. The simple truth is that their Rodents are completely safe to use FOR THEIR INTENDED PURPOSE - Feeding your pet Reptiles. And people need to wash their hands after touching them. Most people know this-

Mice Direct has fully cooperated with the FDA and has already begun the process of Irradiating all products before they ship -- Something that no other Rodent dealer is doing. Expect to see Rodent Pro, American Rodent & the others to be held to same standards.

We have been aware of the FDA's arrival on the farm for a few weeks, and have been in communication through the entire proceedings. The media has twisted and blown out of proportion (just like they always do) everything that is going on. The short of it is, the FDA is trying to determine if they need to regulate frozen feeders like they regulate dog food production, and Mice Direct has become the media punching bag for the all the frozen feeder producers.

Jenea Wood

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Here is a link to the statement on the Mice Direct site:

https://micedirect.com/2010recall/index.htm

Valued customers,

This is to inform you that MiceDirect has issued a voluntary recall. Over the years we have regularly tested our rodents for any potential issues. During one of these recent tests it was detected that a portion of our rodents may be potentially carrying Salmonella. Because of this we are offering a voluntary recall option to our customers.

Facts:

This particular type of Salmonella cannot be passed to your reptile. Reptiles carry other specific strains.

Salmonella is common in almost all groups of both domestic and wild animals
Salmonella can make you sick, small children and frail or elderly people are more susceptible.
Washing your hands prevents this risk of illness from Salmonella. Please wash your hands when handling.


When handling raw product, such as rodents, chicken, pork, beef or any dead animal, it is very important to thoroughly wash your hands. Washing your hands should keep you from becoming sick in the event you come into contact with Salmonella.

What we are doing:

We begun a voluntary program to irradiate all pet food products.

All of our products starting on July 24, 2010 are irradiated, in a similar manner to raw food for human consumption.
We are irradiating our products at a level equivalent to the standards for human consumption.
This product continues to be fully acceptable for consuming reptiles.
You can be confident that our quality standards meet or exceed the standards currently held by other companies.



You can be confident that our quality standards are superior.

Recall Information:

If you have unused product that was purchased between May 2009 and July 23, 2010, please contact us. We are happy to replace product purchased between the above stated dates with our new irradiated product at your request.

We take the quality of our product very seriously. Please contact us for further assistance.

To view our official press release you may Click Here.

Sincerely,

John Callaham

JULY 28, 2010

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I feel quite reassured. I didn't take into consideration a fact which I knew- salmonella is species-specific. So while it's too bad this type can infect humans, what I was really worried about was my snakes!!

Anyway, it sounds like the replacement process should be quite straight forward.

So...to reiterate, our benevolent keepers in Washington are going to protect us because we, generally speaking as a society, are incapable of protecting ourselves, i.e. washing our hands, without an oversight authority.

Kinda makes me feel sorry for the snakes.

Thanks for posting this Nanci.

Nanci I appreciate that you called the rep and are posting her reply.

I doubt the FDA randomly start testing rodent facilities. From what I am guessing there was an outbreak of 17 cases of Salmonella that most likely were of the same strain. That led to an investigation and I am guessing that they found that what the 17 cases had in common was that they all had some exposure to reptiles or rodents. That then led to Mice Direct. It may have led to other facilities as well but I doubt that Mice Direct was randomly tested.

I am also a little perturbed by the fact that on the Mice Direct Web site they say the strain of Salmonella will not make the snakes sick yet in the press release for the recall it says that the mice should not be fed to the snakes. This may only be because the snakes can become carriers and continue to put humans at risk but I think it leaves some suspicions of how they are handling the recall.

Having said all that I have been a customer of theirs for a few years and have been happy and I will most likely continue to buy from them. I doubt that they are the only mass producing rodent facility (or even smaller producer) that has salmonella in their mice at one time or another. I guess there have been two other outbreaks of human salmonella associated with rodent producers in the last 5 - 10 years. I think regulating the rodent industry like they do the dog food or other industries may be a good idea if they can successfully decrease the number of salmonella cases and human and dollar costs associated with the outbreaks.

Feuerhak said:

So...to reiterate, our benevolent keepers in Washington are going to protect us because we, generally speaking as a society, are incapable of protecting ourselves, i.e. washing our hands, without an oversight authority.

Kinda makes me feel sorry for the snakes.

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AND if it wasn't for snakes, this company wouldn't even be in business and this new-found Salmonella scare wouldn't be happening. Therefore, the government must continue their efforts to ban ALL snakes so as to eliminate this obvious health threat and possible pandemic. Mark my words.

D80

Thanks for the research Nanci.
My first reaction to this was: What the heck are people doing with the rodents they buy from MiceDirect, licking them? People get Salmonella from other sources as well. Raw, unwashed foods in a big culprit. One of the biggest sources of contamination is, yeah you guessed it, other people! I think instead of making everyone wash their hands and practice good hygiene we should just irradiate them.:nope: Removing responsibility from individuals doesn't solve the problem.
My second thought was that this was another attack on the industry in general. It's similar to a magician's slight of hand. "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" It makes me sick to my stomach.
I always laugh when I get a shipment from RodentPro because on the outside of the box is written "Frozen Meat." The same statement is on boxes coming from Omaha Steaks and Legal Seafood. LOL
I getting weary of the patriarchal government we presently live under. I don't need to be told by my government to wash my hands after touching dead rodents. Sheesh!

Thanks again Nanci. Great post!
Terri

I guess there have been two other outbreaks of human salmonella associated with rodent producers in the last 5 - 10 years.

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And in the same timespan, how many salmonella outbreaks have been associated with restaurants, frozen human food, fast food outlets etc? My bet is there are many, many more.

3 outbreaks in the last 5-10 years makes the feeder rodent industry pretty safe, for both humans and reptiles.

crackerhead said:

What the heck are people doing with the rodents they buy from MiceDirect, licking them?

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Bah hah hah...

After much thought, since the bags don't seem to have lot #s and I have long since lost the packing slip, I have decided that I am going to use up the Mice Direct shipment even though it's within the time frame that is being recalled, and I am not going to worry about it, except to get new small pinks for the 2010s. I figure Benchley will eat handfuls of snacky bits until I get rid of the previous small pinks. Considering he really, really likes pinks as a snack, this should work.

I have to agree with everyone else. I bet if they checked ALL frozen rodent shipments, they would probably all have some Salmonella in them. Probably not as much as raw chicken though! Hopefully, the frozen feeder business can get through this by stamping all boxes with "Wash hands carefully after handling", similar to the egg and poultry industry that constantly reminds people to cook thoroughly before eating their products. But I fear earlier posters are correct - just another way to show how "dangerous" our hobby / industry is, for further ammo for future bans. I am so sick of this baloney!

Drizzt80 said:

AND if it wasn't for snakes, this company wouldn't even be in business and this new-found Salmonella scare wouldn't be happening. Therefore, the government must continue their efforts to ban ALL snakes so as to eliminate this obvious health threat and possible pandemic. Mark my words.

D80

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That does make sense, considering the whole "burms taking over the country" report has been thoroughly debunked. Taking the timing into consideration, this could definitely be an ammo run. :nope:

The FDA's oversight over outbreaks of reportable diseases, of which Salmonella is one, began long before the current administration or the current increase in bills to try and ban reptiles as pets. While Salmonella is usually a self limited disease it can be fatal or cause significant long term problems for some. Food and other humans are absolutely the more common cause of Salmonella outbreaks and they get investigated too. This was a voluntary recall not mandate by the government or the FDA if you read the press release.

I give Mice Direct kudos for doing it and exposing themselves in this way. Most people do not understand what proper hand washing entails. I doubt most of us wash our hands for as long as it would take us to recite the alphabet twice. That is how long you need to wash your hands if you are to wash them "properly".

There is also the chance that this strain of Salmonella may not be harmful to the snakes but they do become long term carriers which means that anyone that touches them may be at risk of becoming ill. This includes kids that touch their faces often and before we can get them to the sink to wash their hands.

We could of course decide not to monitor for outbreaks of diseases and not let anyone know when there is an outbreak or a possible cause found but I shudder to think about how many outbreaks of E.coli 0157, Salmonella, and other diseases would happen because industries knew they could get away with it. I wonder how many people might die, end up in hospital, lose days from work or have long term medical needs or disabilities because we don't want government to monitor them.

Here is a link to Mice Direct's release :

https://micedirect.com/2010recall/aprelease.htm

I think I figured some of this out -- there was a human outbreak of Salmonella typhimurium in 2008 -- this may have been why the FDA started looking at this. And I agree with Joanna that it has nothing to do with giant-pythons-eating-our-children scare mongering, except that it will help that.

Here's the citation: Fuller CC, Jawahir SL, Leano FT, et al. A multi-state Salmonella Typhimurium outbreak associated with frozen vacuum-packed rodents used to feed snakes. Zoonoses Public Health. 2008;55:481--7.

ABSTRACT

A multi-state outbreak investigation of Salmonella Typhimurim cases associated with pet snakes and the frozen vacuum-packed rodents used to feed them identified a Texas frozen feeder rodent facility (Supplier A) as the source of the Salmonella-infected frozen rodents. Texas authorities collected samples directly from Supplier A. Seven Salmonella-positive samples out of 49 environmental swabs were found and one adult mouse out of 88 frozen feeder rodents was Salmonella-positive by culture. No Salmonella strains were isolated from rodent feeds. The pulsed-field gel electrophoresis (PFGE) subtype patterns of S. Typhimurium isolates from feeder rodent and environment samples were indistinguishable from the outbreak strain isolated from humans. A follow-up investigation was performed on all additional feeder rodent facilities identified in Texas. Salmonella was isolated at one of four facilities; seven of 100 rodent samples were positive for Salmonella at this facility. The serotype S. I 4,[5],12:i:- was isolated from seven feeder rodent samples, and PFGE patterns of the seven isolates were indistinguishable. As observed in the initial outbreak investigation, no Salmonella were cultured from rodent feeds at any of the facilities. The feeder rodent industry is an insufficiently recognized industry in the United States. Outbreak investigation and testing of additional feeder rodent facilities in Texas indicate that further evaluation of feeder rodent facilities as a source of Salmonella for pet snakes and humans is warranted.

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The full article is behind a paywall.

Betsy,

I believe that was one of the two outbreaks previously mentioned or it may be a third. From the press release that Mice Direct put out it really sounds like there was a more recent one. They mention 17 cases. To be honest that seems to me to be a very small outbreak but I have no idea what the threshold for investigation is.

I agree that there may have been a more recent one. That's what I thought from the Mice Direct press release too. I could NOT find any publication of it, though. This was the only paper I found after working on it for a while.

I misunderstood your post. I thought you were saying that the outbreak in your article prompted more testing of rodents and led to the current recall. I wonder if they even test rodents unless there is an outbreak? I think it is probably way too early to find a paper on the most current outbreak.

No, I think there was a more recent outbreak and traceback led to Mice Direct. Normally food borne illness outbreak reports happen pretty quickly, so I thought maybe I could find it but no such luck.

I mostly posted this abstract to show that it had happened and that the traceback led to a firm in Texas on that occasion, so this is not an isolated phenomenon indicating that Mice Direct is particularly bad or anything.

IMHO, I would think testing would be cost prohibitive (meaning before OR after an identified "outbreak"). Having worked in a hopital laboratory as a microbiologist, I know the conventional technologies only test to genus,...for example Salmonella spp. (Salmonella species). For treatment, antibiotic sensitivities are all that is needed.
More precise typing would of course only be of epidemiological interest.

Salmonella is/are everywhere. I am sure there are microbiologists rolling their eyes over this everywhere, as well.

I googled salmonella typing (been a while since I was involved hands on with that work), for the heck of it.
One can find plenty of stuff on the vast number of 'races' (loose use of the word) of Salmonella just googling. Looks like there have been studies, of and on, since some sort of events in 1996.
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=salmonella+typing&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Now, re: Brent's point,...I'm just disgusted. Congressmen can't seem to keep their own damn 'snakes' in their own pants in Washington, airport restrooms, clandestine weekend retreats, and elsewhere,....and they want to legislate things in our lives that in no way touch theirs.

By the way, what does "irradiating" consist of? Is it complicated and a lot of trouble?[/sarcasm] (I'm sure it is.)
Does it not degrade other organisms or molecules that might make the feeders have less nutritional value? Don't make fun of me, because I just don't know and am asking a humble question.

Eric, I agree that testing all mice would be cost prohibitive. I have no idea how the FDA regulates animal food or the USDA monitors food for human consumption. I don't expect mice or even our food sources to be free of all salmonella or bacteria but I do see a need to investigation when there is an outbreak. I am not sure that 17 cases should be classified as an outbreak but I really don't know what epidemiologists consider the right number to call something an outbreak. It could be that they are coming down harder on the reptile and related industries. I have no idea.

Betsy, the recall is only for mice that went out in the last 6 - 9 weeks. I wouldn't think that a report would be published that quickly after such a small outbreak but I don't often follow outbreaks like this.

And as to everyone washing their hands well my husband reminded me of recent experiences we had at a campground. My kids and my husband and I all saw people coming out of the bathroom stalls and walking out without so much as rinsing their hands never mind washing them. If people don't wash their hands after they go to the bathroom how well do you think they wash after they do pet care?

"If people don't wash their hands after they go to the bathroom how well do you think they wash after they do pet care?"

I agree with you 100% on that. But at what point do we tell these same people "Hey, you're on your own, we warned you you're gonna get sick if you do this, now you're sick" instead of the government throwing more money in the fire in a vain attempt to protect everyone from all things?

Just my viewpoint