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BUF gene
- Thread starter Ivanfromsicily
- Start date
Russell
New member
oops, hit the return button too soon...
Anyhow, I've tried hard to make the point that no matter how many other genes are in the mix, if something is homozygous caramel, it CAN be used to test another animal for the Caramel gene.
And no, just cause an animal has lots of yellow does not mean it's het Caramel. There are plenty of other morphs with lots of yellow that are not caramel or het caramel.
Anyhow, I've tried hard to make the point that no matter how many other genes are in the mix, if something is homozygous caramel, it CAN be used to test another animal for the Caramel gene.
And no, just cause an animal has lots of yellow does not mean it's het Caramel. There are plenty of other morphs with lots of yellow that are not caramel or het caramel.
Russell
New member
Shiari,
if the Buf was het amel bred to a butter, you'd see amels and normals if the Buf wasn't het caramel. If it was het caramel or actually a caramel, the babies would be caramels and butters. And if only het caramel, there would be some normals and amels too.
I don't have the results in front of me. The Buf gene did nothing for me. I'm just on this bandwagon enjoy find out the true intent of some with a thread that got going and I got exactly what I expected.
But am also trying to answer a basic genetics problem.
if the Buf was het amel bred to a butter, you'd see amels and normals if the Buf wasn't het caramel. If it was het caramel or actually a caramel, the babies would be caramels and butters. And if only het caramel, there would be some normals and amels too.
I don't have the results in front of me. The Buf gene did nothing for me. I'm just on this bandwagon enjoy find out the true intent of some with a thread that got going and I got exactly what I expected.
But am also trying to answer a basic genetics problem.
carnivorouszoo
Crazy Critter Lady
yes it does. You just refuse to believe it. I'm not going to come back to this. Beating our brains out against your brick wall is killing some of us. And I just joined in, I need an asprin.
JimGERcream
German efficiency
hmm I don't know if anyone in this thread knowes what this "discussion" looks like for someone who's doesn't know anything about the personal differences between some forum members... For me, some things in this thread sound indeed very rude and somebody might have the impression that some people just try to slam the "buf thing".
Of course, I'm not interested in buf, but I think sneering at slangenbroed or other members is not the right way to talk about it :shrugs:
I hope I don't jumble anything up...
In germany, there were several animals popped out which are pretty similar to buf. NOBODY knowes if these animals are in fact the same as slangenbroed animals but I just wanted to say one thing, these "buf-like" animals popped out in a caramel line from breeding hom. caramel striped to hom. caramel striped, in the clutch weren't just caramel striped, there were also some strange butter stripeds which turned out to be very orange and not comparable to regular butter stripeds. the breeder noticed this difference and named them "Auratum" striped.
Another breeding, another breeder: pairing was caramelbloodred het amel x caramel striped het amel (same caramel striped line as above). In the clutch were animals which had to be hom. caramel but they DO look different. Phenotypically it's something between normal and caramel respectively amel and butter. It seems as if the inheritance of this auratum thing is similar to the buf: some kind of dominant! very weird!! but one thing is clear, there's something going on
pics here in these threads...notice the "butter het blood striped" baby on page 1 and the "caramel het blood striped" on page 2!
http://www.farbvarianten.de/viewtopic.php?t=151
in this thread is a nice comparison between regular caramel striped and "auratum caramel striped" in the 4th posting
http://www.farbvarianten.de/viewtopic.php?p=4386&highlight=#4386
long story short: still more confusion
Of course, I'm not interested in buf, but I think sneering at slangenbroed or other members is not the right way to talk about it :shrugs:
I hope I don't jumble anything up...
In germany, there were several animals popped out which are pretty similar to buf. NOBODY knowes if these animals are in fact the same as slangenbroed animals but I just wanted to say one thing, these "buf-like" animals popped out in a caramel line from breeding hom. caramel striped to hom. caramel striped, in the clutch weren't just caramel striped, there were also some strange butter stripeds which turned out to be very orange and not comparable to regular butter stripeds. the breeder noticed this difference and named them "Auratum" striped.
Another breeding, another breeder: pairing was caramelbloodred het amel x caramel striped het amel (same caramel striped line as above). In the clutch were animals which had to be hom. caramel but they DO look different. Phenotypically it's something between normal and caramel respectively amel and butter. It seems as if the inheritance of this auratum thing is similar to the buf: some kind of dominant! very weird!! but one thing is clear, there's something going on
pics here in these threads...notice the "butter het blood striped" baby on page 1 and the "caramel het blood striped" on page 2!
http://www.farbvarianten.de/viewtopic.php?t=151
in this thread is a nice comparison between regular caramel striped and "auratum caramel striped" in the 4th posting
http://www.farbvarianten.de/viewtopic.php?p=4386&highlight=#4386
long story short: still more confusion
carnivorouszoo
Crazy Critter Lady
You totally missed the point. I have yet to see an AMEL that is in and of itself high yellow. That was one example of a het affecting the appearance. While it does not happen in all it does happen in some. I already said I am leaving so now I really am. Geeze.
Russell
New member
oh, so being het amel gives a snake red eyes, and oh a couple white spots for good measure?
Come on! you know better! And at this point it has not been proven that het caramels show any more yellow than animals that aren't. One needs to do a breeding of het caramels, hold all the babies, and then breed to caramels and prove that the babies that are most yellow indeed have the caramel gene versus the ones not showing any yellow. This hasn't been done yet.
mike17l
Self-Admitted Duckoholic
I hope I don't jumble anything up...
In germany, there were several animals popped out which are pretty similar to buf. NOBODY knowes if these animals are in fact the same as slangenbroed animals but I just wanted to say one thing, these "buf-like" animals popped out in a caramel line from breeding hom. caramel striped to hom. caramel striped, in the clutch weren't just caramel striped, there were also some strange butter stripeds which turned out to be very orange and not comparable to regular butter stripeds. the breeder noticed this difference and named them "Auratum" striped.
Another breeding, another breeder: pairing was caramelbloodred het amel x caramel striped het amel (same caramel striped line as above). In the clutch were animals which had to be hom. caramel but they DO look different. Phenotypically it's something between normal and caramel respectively amel and butter. It seems as if the inheritance of this auratum thing is similar to the buf: some kind of dominant! very weird!! but one thing is clear, there's something going on
pics here in these threads...notice the "butter het blood striped" baby on page 1 and the "caramel het blood striped" on page 2!
http://www.farbvarianten.de/viewtopic.php?t=151
in this thread is a nice comparison between regular caramel striped and "auratum caramel striped" in the 4th posting
http://www.farbvarianten.de/viewtopic.php?p=4386&highlight=#4386
long story short: still more confusion
All that can easily be explained by the variation seen in any morph. And, neither of those links worked for me by the way.
Russell
New member
exactly Mike, there is variation in any of the morphs, that doesn't change what they are or necessarily tell you what they are het for. Just cause one finds a really red animal in a pet store doesn't mean it's het bloodred. I might be het lavender or lava...
JimGERcream
German efficiency
It's not that easy. At first I thought the same, but I've seen some in person and changed my mind. believe me, I know how different lines and similar stuff affect the colouration, but this is something different.
carnivorouszoo
Crazy Critter Lady
apparently NOTHING can be proven.
BTW, I just saw (hadn ot read it anywhere before here) that the buf came from caramel lines which PROVES caramel IS involved. Wasn't the point to prove it wasn't? To prove out the buf perhaps breed these buf het caramel together and see if you get buf AND caramel. Mind no other morph genes could be in play to influence the outcome. Oh wait you said it wouldn't matter . . .but yes it could matter. IF buf is a new gene I would say it may share allels with caramel like ultra. Thus the confussion on how to prove it out. How did they prove ultra was not just a version of amel? Perhaps follow that way of test breeding?
Of course I don't really think any of what I just said would be considered and my head hurts worse that I let myself type this, but I could not walk away from this, ug. . . .
BTW, I just saw (hadn ot read it anywhere before here) that the buf came from caramel lines which PROVES caramel IS involved. Wasn't the point to prove it wasn't? To prove out the buf perhaps breed these buf het caramel together and see if you get buf AND caramel. Mind no other morph genes could be in play to influence the outcome. Oh wait you said it wouldn't matter . . .but yes it could matter. IF buf is a new gene I would say it may share allels with caramel like ultra. Thus the confussion on how to prove it out. How did they prove ultra was not just a version of amel? Perhaps follow that way of test breeding?
Of course I don't really think any of what I just said would be considered and my head hurts worse that I let myself type this, but I could not walk away from this, ug. . . .
carnivorouszoo
Crazy Critter Lady
are you even going to CONSIDER that it may share the caramel spot like ultra does with amel or just ignore the possibility? The orange could be similar to ultramel where both are present.
Russell
New member
probably best to just ignore the hostility and not worry about it. You can enjoy the hobby just fine without knowing all the hostilities involved. Trust me, you'd be happier not knowing.
Russell
New member
Yep, you could be absolutely correct!
Russell
New member
the problem is I don't own the Buf gene, nor have I worked with it, nor have I followed that project. Chuck just tried to include as much as he could into his book with the limited space he has to spend. He probably could have filled the whole book on the different crosses done with Buf and it's results. But he didn't do that. He touches on it briefly that there is this morph, out there, that someone has done some work with. It's still being worked on...