Colours & patterns

[LMS68]

What do you breeders/collectors aim for when you select for breeding or that catches your eye: colouring, patterns or both?

 

[JimGERcream]

Depends on the breeding goal I think.

e.g. in blood morphs I'm aiming for colouring and patterns, in anerythristic bloodred morphs I mostly focus on pattern.

 

[DMong]

What do you breeders/collectors aim for when you select for breeding or that catches your eye: colouring, patterns or both?

I select for coloring, patterns or both



..........I couldn't help it! :roflmao:

 

[Susan]

I select more for color, but in certain morphs, pattern is also considered.

 

[LMS68]

I select for coloring, patterns or both



..........I couldn't help it! :roflmao:

Indecisive or you just want it all?:shrugs:


:laugh01:

 

[LMS68]

I was just wondering about how you choose the colours or patterns & also I guess some are more difficult to achieve or are more rare?

I'm just trying to figure all this out & when I think I'm starting too, someone posts either that to my untrained eye looks like any other of the same but the connoisseurs all drool over it & blurts out the technical name.

I just go "oh pretty colour or colour combo"! :laugh:

And then my head does this :blowhead: because I read a thread on different snakes (King/rat/Thay-whatcha-ma-call-it) & there are photos of even more varied colour & pattern combo!

 

[DMong]

I was just wondering about how you choose the colours or patterns & also I guess some are more difficult to achieve or are more rare?

I'm just trying to figure all this out & when I think I'm starting too, someone posts either that to my untrained eye looks like any other of the same but the connoisseurs all drool over it & blurts out the technical name.

I just go "oh pretty colour or colour combo"! :laugh:

And then my head does this :blowhead: because I read a thread on different snakes (King/rat/Thay-whatcha-ma-call-it) & there are photos of even more varied colour & pattern combo!

LOL!!,...I was giggling pretty good while reading all that.

Yes, there is more to snake colors, patterns, variations, genetics, and entire natural history than even the most dedicated person could ever possibly learn in 5 lifetimes. I've been huge into snakes for 46 years now, and breeding all sorts of them for 25 years and I never stop learning things all the time. That is is actually the very best part too. If you want to learn quite a bit about a certain kind, there are some really great inexpensive books out there that you can learn many years worth of knowledge in very short order. I certainly do know what you mean though about similar looking types and trying to figure what the differences are. :laugh:


cheers, ~Doug

IMG]http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc140/DMong_bucket/Copy1ofstpc_008.jpg[/IMG]

Believe it or not, this is the very same snake as the hatchling above as it matured a bit and developed more color!

oops!,..did a nice extreme hypo Honduran milk get in here somehow? :laugh:

 

[Susan]

I was just wondering about how you choose the colours or patterns & also I guess some are more difficult to achieve or are more rare?

How do we choose? Basically, I would say it depends upon what each individual is looking for or wants. To me, it's what I personally find attractive and desirable. I like snows and anery combos with lots of pink/peach and yellow hues so am going to breed for that and choose my keepers appropriately. Others may choose just the opposite and breed for that.

I'm just trying to figure all this out & when I think I'm starting too, someone posts either that to my untrained eye looks like any other of the same but the connoisseurs all drool over it & blurts out the technical name.

Considering the amount of variation that can be seen within a morph, there can be small details that make one individual snake closer to the "ideal" example of the morph, causing all the "Oooo's" and "Ahhh's". Also, while that individual may seem closer to the "ideal", it may still not appeal to everyone but it can be recognized for what it is and appreciated as such. For example, I don't care too much for the white, and only white, morphs...perfect example, blizzards and their pattern combos. However, when someone posts a Whiteout that is pure white and has great diffusion, I'll "Oooo" and "Ahhh" because of it's perfection even though I wouldn't care to have it in my collection.

And as for the blurting out of the technical name, that takes years of practice to recognize what the morphs look like and what they are called. Even then, many of us still have to look it up (I just had to look up "Whiteout" for a diffuse blizzard"). And then, there are so many new combos being hatched every year where the subtleties can only be recognized by those that specialize in that certain morph. Because of the number they have seen, their eye has been trained beyond the rest of us.

I just go "oh pretty colour or colour combo"! :laugh:

And then my head does this :blowhead: because I read a thread on different snakes (King/rat/Thay-whatcha-ma-call-it) & there are photos of even more varied colour & pattern combo!

Believe it or not, there are more of us out there that do that then you might think! And don't even go to the other species and/or intergrade and hybrid forms! The amount of variation that can be seen within a single clutch of hybrids will make you swear they are all unrelated, totally different species!

My advice to you is to just admire each individual for it's own special phenotype no matter the morph. If it really appeals to you, then learn what makes that snake look that way and go from there.

 

[5 Star Serpents]

First off let me say Doug, I have a pair of those extreme hypo hondo's and never seen another in anyone else' collection (certainly no others in Canada that I know of) and they are SEXY snakes. I took my male to a show last fall to display and there were people who thought it was plastic, they couldn't believe you could get such a bright orange snake "for real". Even fellow hobbyists were in awe. I took him to display only because as long as they decide to get along this season we should have babies, so I just wanted people to be able to see what we are going to have to offer hopefully...needless to say I now have a waiting list for them

NOW....back on topic...from our experience, the market in our area supports odd or different patterns over color, that said however we still also select a huge amount on color. For example I won't use butters in my breeding program unless they are INSANELY bright yellow, as in yellow that is as hard to photograph as pink but because it reflects back any sort of light and turns into a yellow snake shaped glob in the resulting image.

The snake in this photo is, from what we know, pure corn. This photo was taken when she was a bit younger but her mature colors are the same as in this photo. She gets a lot of attention because she is very different from what people typically see out there.

Patterns and colors like the guy in the middle don't last on the table more than half a day (he's beside a "normal" anery girl, he is proven NOT homo hypo, only het hypo)

this girl just laid her first clutch, paired with the guy above, hopefully we will end up with some NICE babies

And now a couple of holdbacks, based on color and/or pattern. The anery babies all have lightened up like dad since these photos were takes (he's the anery aztec above)

And lastly this little girl for her color, it is true to the photo...she is NOT pure corn though only about 87%(ish)

 

[5 Star Serpents]

EEK sorry about the huge pics. They were resized awhile ago but it doesn't look like they were at all!

 

[DMong]

5 Star,......yes, I very much agree. Nice examples of extreme hypos are tough to beat, and mine usually sell-out well-before they hatch or even breed quite often. Just yesterday a customer wanted to know if he could put down a full payment on a pair of this coming season's extremes...

Anyway, back on topic......those are some great looking animals. What is the precise genetic origin of the animal in your first pic there? Is there any terazzo in its lineage?


~Doug

 

[5 Star Serpents]

Anyway, back on topic......those are some great looking animals. What is the precise genetic origin of the animal in your first pic there? Is there any terazzo in its lineage?


~Doug

I wish I knew! She was a pet store pick up as a hatchling, it's quite the story...I'm pretty sure I have it in a thread specifically about her on here somewhere but I can't remember for sure. It was that time when you go in just to check things out, because we don't buy at petstores as a rule...in fact she's the only one in over 4 years, she looked almost like a normal stripe hatchling but something was just off. Anyways a few days and a lot of driving and fuel (6 hours driving combined) we HAD to have her, I expected her to color up and look like a normal, she never has. She did prove het for amel, caramel and hypo last year, I will be breeding her to a butter motley this year to see if we get motleys and being as I am in Canada there aren't any terrazzo's that I am able to source out up here but am hoping to bring up at least a male in the next short while with the gene. There are quite a few reputable breeders from down there who have worked with Terrazzo's that are fairly certain that is what she is so I guess we will see. Either way I love her color and pattern and to sweeten the pot, she's an absolute doll

 

[DMong]

I wish I knew! She was a pet store pick up as a hatchling, it's quite the story...I'm pretty sure I have it in a thread specifically about her on here somewhere but I can't remember for sure. It was that time when you go in just to check things out, because we don't buy at petstores as a rule...in fact she's the only one in over 4 years, she looked almost like a normal stripe hatchling but something was just off. Anyways a few days and a lot of driving and fuel (6 hours driving combined) we HAD to have her, I expected her to color up and look like a normal, she never has. She did prove het for amel, caramel and hypo last year, I will be breeding her to a butter motley this year to see if we get motleys and being as I am in Canada there aren't any terrazzo's that I am able to source out up here but am hoping to bring up at least a male in the next short while with the gene. There are quite a few reputable breeders from down there who have worked with Terrazzo's that are fairly certain that is what she is so I guess we will see. Either way I love her color and pattern and to sweeten the pot, she's an absolute doll

Thanks for the reply and story. Yes, she sure does look like many of the stripe-ish terazzo's I've seen before. They definitely start out different as you probably already know too.


Good luck with proving her out for Terazzo and other stuff! I have some friends that work with cool Terazzos stuff.


cheers, ~Doug

 

[NiklasTyreso]

Where I live (Sweden) most breeders/sellers combine different genes to produce new morphs that bring in the cash.
They also import some snakes for new genes and new morph that sell well.
Those breeders (less than ten) produce most cornsnakes in the Sweden and sell on most of the reptile shows.

Some few do try to improve colours with selective breeding, like selecting for yellow butters or very red bloods.

A few breed selectively for polygenetic patterns like zigzag/aztec, as I do.

And then there is some breeders that breed for fun without knowledge or selection.

 

[Isoldael]

I'm not much of a breeder as I've only ever had one breeding pair so far, but when buying my snakes I look at the ones that just "look awesome" to me. In some cases, it's quite obvious what I selected them on:

Lilith, with her perfect back stripe

Nash with his cute face and the stripe that is uninterrupted almost all the way to his tail

But in some cases, I have no idea what attracted me in a certain snake:

Saphira, "just" a normal. Bought her looking like his:

And she's grown into what I still consider to be one of my favourites. Only a normal but with the most awesome grey background and contrast

 

[hikisquid]

I'm not a breeder, but I looked for personality and pattern when I bought my snake. My husband loves anything grey and tire/road like, so we went with a sweetie of an anery stripe.