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Controversial Topic #3: Replies to "Newbs"

Jimmy: I have used the "not obligated" line myself, but that's never been my first post in a thread. It's always been in response to someone not willing to take my research suggestions, and demanding that I just give an answer because I'm "supposed to", because "that's what (I'm) here for."

I think we agree on about 95% of all this. That little 5% difference probably comes from your emphasis on experienced/longterm poster politeness and civility, and my emphasis on new poster responsibility and approach. Heck, we may even assign the same value to these things and agree 100%. :cheers:
 
My response to CT #3 is similar to my response to CT #2. I answer the questions I know. I don't really pay attention to whether the person is new or old. If I know an answer well enough because I've experienced it before, then I respond. I don't do that very often. Certainly not every day. I'd say I offer advice once or twice a week, if that.

I do remember being a "newbie" (hate that term by the way :grin01: ) I didn't ask too many questions then. Mostly I just read the other ones asked by others. Maybe its just my nature to sit back and watch, rather than ask openly. I did learn that when I did ask questions, I needed to be clear in the subject line or I wouldn't get to many answers.

And about the groups, I feel that through participation and going into the chatroom, anyone can become part of the "in crowd" if they really want to. It took 6 months, but I finally feel like I'm a part of that group, even if just in a small way. I may never meet them for dinner at Daytona or talk about breeding hypo lav blood striped ultramels:eek1: , but they've made me feel comfortable just blabbing about general stuff.

I know, long post about nothing... lol, just my feelings about the forums, chat, and the so-called cliques. The bottom line is: if you make the effort to communicate well and not be a total leetspeek idiot, you should get respnses to your questions, and if you really want to, you too can become a participaing, contributing member!
 
I'd like to point out one other thing. Jimmy stated back a few threads ago that people shouldn't get upset when someone comes here asking newbie questions because they are doing research. There I think you are incorrect. When you come to a forum and ask a question like what temperature should I have my viv at, what size enclosure, how often should I feed and similar questions, you haven't done research. Research #1 should preferably be done before you purchase the animal. If you have access to the web as obviously you do if you're here, you could easily punch in questions about cornsnake care and find a jillion links to care sheets. I don't mine if someone comes on to the forum and asks a specific question such as...I am feeding my snake x sized mouse. I am noticing this. Do you think it would be appropriate to feed him this. Or...My snake is only this big and the mice I have look really too big. Do you think it would be safe to feed this...Those sorts of questions I don't mind. But really...I've seen similar posted questions on the same day 2 or 3 threads down. Obviously someone is not reading. When I decided to get into another species of snake, did you really think I ran to the forum that is for that species and start asking..what sort of temperatures do they need, how much humidity? No! I went on the web first, read care sheets, got a book on the species and then asked specific questions that I couldn't find using search functions or anywhere else. THAT is research. The other is being lazy!
 
I agree with you MegF., the research is important and seems logical to most of us but some people do not see things that way (Please note, I am not bashing them!) but some things are easier for some than others. For me, the difficult thing is to get to grip with the Morphs but for the care, I think I am doing well but I still have a lot (I mean a LOT) to learn, I am by no mean an expert but I am happy to remind people that they can find things here and there.

I too have being guilty of asking silly questions even though I did the research. This was only because the answers I got from varied sources where too different and I did not feel comfortable applying it and wanted the input/thoughts of the people I know and trust to have a sound judgement regarding snakes about that particular subject.

I think it all starts at the noob introducing themselves and the current members of this forum giving the tips right from the start. I was given some good links, made aware of the Search function which really helped me ( Lennycorn :bowdown: ). Also, a quick list of keywords would be a good idea to add to the list of the “welcome” answer noob gets as it would avoid a lot of unnecessary questions.

I feel that some people just look at the veterants’ point of view and not the noobs’ point of view, and vice versa. I am trying to look at it from both sides (even though I am only still a noob) and I think it can be make “smoother” from both sides.
I totally agree that it is not the “Job” of the older members of this forum to answer questions but if you do not want to answer or think that question is too stupid, then don’t answer. I also agree that it is also the noob’s responsibility to be clear when asking a question, not use foul language, no abbreviations, etc… but this is common sense and sometimes some people are not aware of that and it offend some people. Even if it is general etiquette, a gentle reminder should help the noob to realise his error in thinking this is like a chat room or sending sms to their mates.

Right, I stop ranting now ;)
 
[/QUOTE] I also agree that it is also the noob’s responsibility to be clear when asking a question, not use foul language, no abbreviations, etc… but this is common sense and sometimes some people are not aware of that and it offend some people. Even if it is general etiquette, a gentle reminder should help the noob to realise his error in thinking this is like a chat room or sending sms to their mates.

[/QUOTE]


i believe Dean said about this a page or so back. some people can get a bit "touchy" when you point out to them that it's rude. some just don't like to listen to a bit of friendly advice about the way they could behave. :shrugs:
 
Jenkva: If you did the research and didn't find the answers you wanted then it isn't a silly question. The point is, you made an effort to find the answers. A lot of people come here and don't. Frankly, if they can't even take the time to read a few care sheets available all over the web, or read thru some posts here to see what sort of questions have been answered then maybe they shouldn't have the animal. It points to me a serious lack of commitment on making sure that their animal is getting proper care. You might have contrasting opinions on feeding live over f/t for instance, or whether to co-habitate, but you aren't going to get much argument on what temperatures to keep the viv at, or that you shouldn't use sand. Nor will you find anyone suggesting you feed crickets or fish. That's all pretty standard stuff, yet people come on here almost everyday and ask "What temperatures should I have for my snake?" "What should I feed him and how often?" It gets a little frustrating.
 
Something that, (I think), is hard for people who have been here awhile to remember is that a new pet owner is usually starting from almost zero in husbandry knowledge. Pet stores are notorious for bad, even dangerous, info like,"You need a heat lamp, some desert sand, and just throw in a handful of crickets every week." Really. (Also, I rarely see a pet shop display with a hide for their snake, and their beddings and water bowls are shocking, multiple snakes in small cages, etc.) So not only are they missing some basic info, especially terminology like "substrate", "uth", "rheostat", even "pinkie", but they also may not BELIEVE advice from an anonomous person on a forum who for all they know is Joe Schmoe. They had advice from a pet store "reptile expert", things went wrong (of course), and sometimes they are frantic to help save their snake. Books can give bad advice as well, ecpecially the little books they sell in pet stores. So even though they thought they did their research by asking the pet store employee lots of questions, getting the pet stores "care sheet", and sometimes even reading a pamphlet they bought (that is wrong as well), that research they've done hasn't helped them.

When I was brand spankin' new here, I was looking for advice because my new snake wouldn't eat. I discovered that almost everything I had done, and spent lots of cash to do, was wrong.

It is good to look at the other side of the posting coin.
I still consider myself 90% on it.
 
Hi all
I do a lot of lurking on this board. Not only do I want to learn more about cornsnakes, but I am also scoping out what snakes I might want to acquire and who I might want to get them from. Character is very important to me and I strongly avoid buying anything from people who are unkind to other people, no matter how "justified".
 
moosie said:
Hi all
I do a lot of lurking on this board. Not only do I want to learn more about cornsnakes, but I am also scoping out what snakes I might want to acquire and who I might want to get them from. Character is very important to me and I strongly avoid buying anything from people who are unkind to other people, no matter how "justified".
Who the heck asked you? Hah! :grin01: I'm joking, of course. Welcome, and I've got you on the list for 2 pairs of '08 lav-bloods. ;)
 
I don't pretend to know even the smallest fraction of what there is to know about herps. However, before joined this forum, let alone posted on it, I did a sh**ton of research elsewhere on the internet, bought the manual, and browsed the forum endlessly as a guest acquiring all of the basic information I needed to be a good snake owner. As excited as I was about getting a corn snake, I tried not to shoot first...

I think that this forum is an AMAZING resource for experienced breeders and casual pet owners alike. But it's just ONE resource. In my opinion, it's important that people do their own research before coming here an relying on all the experienced people for all of their information. Research also enables the new folks to ask intelligent questions.

Personally, I've never gotten a poor response to any of my questions. When I was going to co-habitate my snakes, most of you told me not to, so I didn't. When I thought I owned the laziest snake in the world, you all told me it was shedding. Everyone has been very helpful, no one has been rude or snippy. I attribute this to that fact that it seemed like I had a vague idea what I was talking about. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The long and the short is that I don't see a problem with the way the this forum operates. People seem to give based on how much they feel you've put into the hobby. Just wanted to throw in my $.02. :wavey:

Oh yea, and spell check wanted me to change "herps" to "herpes" :grin01:
 
MegF. said:
I'd like to point out one other thing. Jimmy stated back a few threads ago that people shouldn't get upset when someone comes here asking newbie questions because they are doing research. There I think you are incorrect. When you come to a forum and ask a question like what temperature should I have my viv at, what size enclosure, how often should I feed and similar questions, you haven't done research. Research #1 should preferably be done before you purchase the animal. If you have access to the web as obviously you do if you're here, you could easily punch in questions about cornsnake care and find a jillion links to care sheets. . . . But really...I've seen similar posted questions on the same day 2 or 3 threads down. Obviously someone is not reading. . . . I went on the web first, read care sheets, got a book on the species and then asked specific questions that I couldn't find using search functions or anywhere else. THAT is research. The other is being lazy!

I agree. Some of the questions that are posted by newbies are research, and some are not. When I don't know how to spell something, I look it up. My mom always made me look it up. Sure, when I didn''t know how to spell something, it wasn't that easy to find in the dictionary because I didn't know how to spell it! But if I gave it some effort and tried different "search terms," I could usually find it. If not, then my mom would give me the first three letters to try again. Some of the questions here are akin to asking somene how to spell something. That's not research. Some questions are not, and those are never answered with "look it up!" I just gave out a "look it up" reply the other day because the person stated that they had recently seen a thread on the topic, but what was the answer again? They did NOT say that had seen and thread and hadn't been able to find it again (i.e., they had attempted to do research but had failed to find what they were looking for.) I got flamed for it, but come on. That was lazy. And yes, it does take me longer to find a particular thread than it does to remind a person that he or she can look for it.

Sure, the search function isn't all that easy and you don't find what you're looking for on the first try every time. But if you simply read the boards for a week, you will learn all kinds of things that don't come up on care sheets. That's what I did. I had read care sheets before I got my first two snakes but none of them discussed co-habitating, and the woman I got them from said it was fine. I found this site after I had my snakes. After reading the threads for less than a week, there was a thread on co-habitation. I then had a keyword (which I didn't have before, and wouldn't have been able to find much without it) and searched for it. Then I decided that I would separate my snakes when I had enough money for a new viv. Not much later, I learned about rack systems. So I paid attention to the dimensions people listed for their tubs when they were discussing their new rack systems, etc. Then I researched plastic tubs. EVENTUALLY, I posted a question about which were the clearest tubs, because I had done searches for that issue and hadn't found the answer I wanted. Then I got some nice replies including a type of tub I hadn't heard of before, and off I went to get one and separated my snakes. I learned about how many holes to drill in the tub from someone else's thread. I even learned about how to melt holes through several tubs with a soldering iron. Of course I would never have found that in a search for "methods for efficiently making holes in tubs."

My point is, if you are new and you hang around and read others' threads, you will get answers to almost all your questions and many more you never knew you had. And that seems like common sense. To borrow a metaphor, if you came upon a group of podiatrists at a party, it wouldn't make sense to immediately butt into their conversation and start asking questions about your feet. You would obviously learn a lot more if you stayed a while and listened to their conversation. Furthermore, after you have listened a while, and then you have some questions, those questions would be informed by what you have already learned from your listening, and the podiatrists would be much less likely to excuse themselves from the conversation because they need another drink from the bar.

You always learn a lot more from listening than from talking.
 
desertanimal said:
My mom always made me look it up. Sure, when I didn''t know how to spell something, it wasn't that easy to find in the dictionary because I didn't know how to spell it! But if I gave it some effort and tried different "search terms," I could usually find it. If not, then my mom would give me the first three letters to try again.
I think you are lucky to have a mum that helped you grow the way she did but you have to remember that not everybody got that ;)

My dad also gave me the dictionary when I didn't know the meaning of a word and when I could not quite understand, he would give me examples.
 
Wow, nice thread!

Just a couple points from this newbie :)

This may sound like the daftest thing ever, but when I was super new it was much more reassuring to get a personal response from someone than to find an impersonal one through the search function. Let me clarify: when I first had to deal with a regurge, I was so convinced I was going to do something else wrong and make the situation worse, as from the lurking I'd been doing I knew that regurge was a really bad thing. So, yeah, I read the FAQ's and some old threads, but it was still a big boost of moral support to be able to get a personal response from wiser heads. Sometimes all these shy/worried newbies want is for someone to say, 'yes, you're doing everything you can'. Not to get too pink and fluffy on you guys, but a personal response to a worrying situation lets a newbie know that in the big bad world of snake-haters someone is there for them. Should you feel obliged to respond? No. Does it make you a big softy to send a smile their way? Sure it does :)

Next point: I have regularly been answering the co-hab posts. Sometimes I direct them to other threads, sometimes I copy-paste one of my previous replies, sometimes I rant and rave and put up about 10 head-bang emoticons. The varying responses pretty much depend on how the question was asked. Anyway, my point is that even though I am a newbie, I've read so much about this and have come to my own strong conclusions that I feel fully justified in responding. Also, I know from chat and old threads that the wiser heads are probably not even going to read the question (not that I blame them, when I've answered it another 50 or so times I'll be ignoring it too and hoping some newer-that-me newb will take over). Even if we get tired of answering the same question over and over, the cohab (and others) question to me can have such serious repercussions that I'd rather give that person some direction rather than leave them in the hands of the trolls!

Bit of a rambling response there, but then again, I am a noob :rolleyes:
 
Wow, pretty much of what I have to say has been covered already, and I just hate being late to a good party. :D I've had snakes before, so I didn't consider myself a total noob, but a lot had changed since then. We networked in person at pet shops and spent hours at the library doing research. Yeah, the library.. actually leaving the house with pen and paper... so I get a little bent at the people who don't take the time to access the wealth of research already done for them, just a few clicks away, and while sitting at home in their comfy little chair.
I also get a little peeved when I see posts that I think were started by a young person due to the spelling and grammer, to find out they are my age or older... Granted, they might not have had the same English Lit teacher I had, (who loved red ink), but how can a person actually make it this far without some kind of remedial writing/communication skills? :shrugs: I really believe that is the problem with most of the questions being asked over and over again. You can't search for an answer if you can't spell the question...
Ok, I need some caffeine before I start to ramble even more than I already am, so.... I'll leave it at this...
 
I'm somewhat new here and sometimes I reply to something and leave a bit of information out so somebody might say something with kind of rude overtones but you can't blame them. They didn't know that I knew more than that and just forgot to put it down but had every intention of adding it.

"Chat-speak" also drives me crazy. I can tolerate "lol" but "omg" "pplzz" and "pleez" are the most annoying phrases ever used by man kind.

:flames: omg pleez pplzz
 
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