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Could it be IBD?

LMS68

LMS68

New member
Hi guys,
Sorry it's been forever since I posted but I have been lurking.

My son came to me less than an hour ago all worried about Martha's odd behaviour. He went to feed her & she halfheartedly struck at the mouse then proceeded to coil around it but just continue going in a spiral for 5 min at least.

He says when she came toward the mouse initially, she was wobbly.

When she finally stopped going in a spiral, I put my hand in the tank & let her "smell" me & I picked her up gently. He warned me not to as last few attempts he had tried to pick her up (same way) she struck at him each time. I've never had issues with picking her up.

Sure enough, her behaviour was quite odd, she wrapped herself around my hand & was slithering backwards instead of the normal forward. She was flicking the air constantly, looked confused & then has her head in an S shape & was tilting sideways (made me think of when I have vertigo).

We took the mouse away & put her back in her tank. She's kept on aspen, always has clean water. We buy mice from either Petsmart or her breeder.

I'm about to call the vet.

Could this be IBD? Her breathing is fine, no open mouth, or clicking, scales are beautiful & smooth.

Any suggestions on what other things I should look out for & ask my son. I had stopped looking out for her on her 1st yr anniversary from her tail accident, since she is my grown up son's pet (not mine).

Thanks
 
We have an appointment for 3 pm this afternoon.

I went to check on Martha & she's still staying on top of her aspen shavings. She has a good grip & holds on tightly around my hand but she still seems confused & doesn't seem to know up from down. She bends her head to the side & then slowly goes upside down. She's very cool to the touch.
 
Just looking up on the internet for anything that describes her symptoms & Wobblers Syndrome came up.

I've also sent an email to her breeder to let him know & ask for guidance.
 
Got a reply from his breeder & he brought up these points that I thought I should share in case anyone is ever looking for help like I am right now:

toxins, fumes, water, mites for example.

Toxins & fumes: though we have been doing renos, it's not every day & nothing that causes any airborne particles. We also put her in my son's room which is very temperate but being an old farm house, it does get very hot during the hottest times of the summer.

Water: I used to give her bottled water & change the water every 3rd day or so. I think he's been giving her well water. I'll have to find the water analysis we had done which was very comprehensive.

Mites: her scales are nice & smooth, not sure what else to look for.
 
Just got back from the vet's & all 3 herp vets were stumped. During the appointment she worsened. It looks neurological & very quick acting from onset of first symptoms. The vet did say that if she did come across something airborne, snakes are slow to get affected & show symptoms.

They gave her some antibiotics in case it's bacterial & Thiamin in case it's a deficiency. If it's the latter, we should see some improvement in 24 hrs. I seriously doubt it though, by the time we got home, she had worsened even more. I don't think she will make it. :(
 
Thanks Nanci.

I went to check on her as my husband thought she'd passed away & sure enough, she was ice cold & 100% limp & unresponsive. I touched her gently to elicit any type of movement, then moved her a bit, but nothing. I left the room to talk to my husband & he asked if she was on the UTH. So I went back to put her on it (it's under the tank as usual) & she was moving her head incredibly slowly. I coiled her partially on top of it, covered her with a paper towel & will go back & check on her regularly. Her mouth was closed & tongue back in.
 
I'm sorry to hear that :(
Any change in cleaning supplies, or something along that lines?
My initial thought is chemical/toxin.
What substrate do you use in her cage?
 
Nothing different at all in the last 3 years. She's on aspen shavings.

The vet's first thought was also toxin/chemical.

My son clean's her tank with water only (I think. I mix just a couple of drops of sunlight dish soap in the squeeze bottle & then rinse with water). He usually cleans up the poop as soon as he sees it & changes the shavings once a month.

In the spring when the lady bugs were waking up, he was constantly taking them out of her tank & at their worst, had a towel on top of the tank.

2 months ago, he sprayed the far side of his room with insect repellent (that when we looked it up, is used to treat mites in snakes. And it was localized & only sprayed enough to get to what he wanted, so not as if he'd fumigated the whole room for example) but had the tank covered up until it was safe to remove it. When I asked why he hadn't moved Martha out he said she had started showing aggression toward him, so didn't want to irritate her.

So even though it was a very light & localized spray & she was covered so none would go in the tank, we're wondering if that was the cause but, he & his father looked it up as a precaution. So that's all I & the vets can think of other than the vitamin deficiency. (He could have asked me to take her out since I'd never had any issues with picking her up... no sense in dwelling on that part, poor kid thought he'd taken enough precautions)
 
I forgot to mention that they also gave her a bath just in case.

I just went to check on her & she was off her UTH & felt warmer (normal) to the touch. Should I put her back on it or leave her off of it? The vet recommended to make sure she stays on it... Don't get me wrong, I trust vets but I also trust people who have experience like many of you guys on here.

Her rationale was that in mammals, when something is wrong, we get a fever & that gets our body to fight, reptiles don't have that. SO in theory, having her on the UTH keeping her warm should get that going to hopefully fight whatever's going on.
 
We bump up the temps to help snakes fight RI's so it makes sense to keep her warmer. If she is warm to the touch then I'd let her stay off of it. It would be better to cover the top of the tank to bump up the ambient temp instead of possibly overheating her on the UTH.
 
Thanks, makes sense. My son was asking if he should do this.

I think Martha passed away. I went to check on her & she hadn't moved. I touched her & she is soft & limp, not the usual firm. I'll keep checking just in case though.
 
I'm terribly sorry to hear this. I wish I had some great advice, but I just wanted you to know others are thinking of you.
 
I'm sorry. This is so unusual. I don't think the insect repellent could have done it. It sounds like something neurological.
 
Thanks guys.

Nanci that really lifts a huge weight off my shoulders, thank you. We always took precautions & that was the only thing we could think of & my son is beating himself up over this. :(

And poor kid is working his first double shift at the restaurant today (we're leaving in a couple of minutes. We had a follow up at the vet's between his shifts) & can't take the day off as they're short staffed (he's filling in for someone).

It's going to be a tough day for him. :(
 
I've had the interior of my house sprayed/treated multiple times, for years, without it affecting the snakes or birds. Your snake's viv was covered, the spray was not directed at her, I just don't believe that had anything to do with it.
 
First, I am really sorry. It sucks when we lose them, especially to something we could have prevented, but (second) I agree with Nanci, I do not think you did anything wrong and if you did you absolutely didn't mean any harm.

I agree that it sounds neurological. This may seem kind of grim, but if she did pass (for sure), you could contact the vets and ask if they want to use her body to research with. They may jump on the chance to do a necropsy and find out what happened to Martha, and it would put your minds at ease if they find out it wasn't anything you could have prevented.

Hugs to you, sorry again for your loss.
 
Thank you, I really appreciate it.

I honestly cannot think of anything that would have caused this, unless it was something small that we kept doing that led up to it? No clue.

I thought maybe the water (the well is over 100 yrs old). We all use the water & all the animals drink from it (horses, dog, cat & ferrets) & the water we keep the pond fish in, is from this well.
 
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