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Fresh dead vs f/t?

7legion77 said:
"but do you want me to link you to the very post where he SAID he got a psychosexual thrill out of it?"

I was paraphrasing what Bethany had said in an earlier thread, she came up with that word. I'm very sarcastic sometimes, maybe it's hard for forum readers online to pick up on that.
It's not like I ACTUALLY get sexually aroused watching a mouse struggle, I just admire the snake's ability to kill.
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I know! You do however realize that it upsets her and she is obviously passionate about this subject. I think everyone can respect the, God given right of choosing for ones self, after hearing both sides, and not degrading oneanother, or their opinion. Thats about it in a nut shell, hopefully everyone can put their differences aside, and when the subject is brought up make a concious effort to let both sides be heard fairly, and without attack. Then let the reader do the research and decide.
 
Its okay Beth, Star, whatever you want to be called.

Look, this forum is open to everyone, please stop trying to enforce an us vs them mentality because most people here are anonymous. You can tear into me all you want, but by saying things like
How can someone who puts his snake at risk every week FOR NO GOOD REASON ever expect to be accepted here
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you're only gonna reduce traffic and make this place less interesting, because many if not most snake owners feed live prey and will keep doing it, and that big part of the community shouldn't be squelched at THE corn snake forum on the net. I know your opinion comes from a source of deep compassion, but its okay to allow opinions of people who regularly kill ants, moths, mosquitoes, rats, pests, and aren't as closely attuned to the feelings of their snake's prey item.
And again, feeding live DOES NOT mean I don't love and care about my snake. At best it can be called negligence, but I'm inclined to not fall for fear propaganda (i.e. the risk of feeding live is far lower than what the picture-linkers make it out to be), and if I reap what I sow in the end then so be it.

Megan pointed out earlier that his posts range from hitting mice with a hammer, being afraid to touch the mice, saying that f/t is better but having mice in the freezer is icky, and a hundred other stances. He seems to have more personalities than Sybil and pulls out whichever one he thinks will troll better.
Wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't even own a snake.
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This part made me laugh.
 
Actually, most feed f/t or prekilled. Most don't get involved in these kind of threads because of the trollish behaviors that seem to pop up in them.

You might want to do a bit more research before you start saying that many if not most snake owners feed live prey or saying a "big" part of the community are live prey feeders. Its not economically to feed live nor is it safe. Most inexperienced snake owners will feed live is about the only thing that could be said. If you have a 500 dollar snake that will readily take f/t which risk such an investment in feeding live? Someone can do a poll on here or other snake sites and see how many feed live vs. f/t. I bet you would be wrong. I belong to a ball python site and a aussie python site and the majority of owners on those sites feed f/t or prekilled and advocate against the feeding of live. Not saying that some dont feed live because there are those that absolutely have to because some snakes will never take f/t or prekilled.
 
I agree!!
Also, I haven't researched it but I think in the UK it's illegal to feed live.
 
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By principle, what the majority does is fairly irrelevant to the individual, that's the point I'm trying to make all along.

But you are correct, BeautifullyWild, that most live feeders are amateurs. And guess who comes here the most? Newbies looking for answers (like myself). I'm sure there are plenty of experts who also feed live, and I think F/T is more of a recent trend that's expanded because logically, it is the safest and cheapest way to go, and it fuels the rodenticide/mass gassing of mice industry.
If I had a fancy boa and fed it huge live adult rats, then maybe I would think twice.
But as it stands, I'd always rather have the snake do what it does best: kill its own prey... seems like an essential part of being a snake. Rather do that than pick up a dead mouse with tweezers and spoon feed it to the snake. I can't get over it, will I ever be cured?
 
I owned a milk snake 10 years ago and fed f/t. I do not believe it is a recent trend

But what I don't understand is the life and safety of my FREE corn snakes matter just as much as my fancy boa or my ball pythons. An adult mouse can do some pretty nasty damage.

My spotted python with strike, coil and "kill" a frozen thawed mouse, as well as my husbands pinstripe ball python, as well as my adult normal corn snake. I have babies that will with do it to f/t pinkies. The essential part of any snake is survival. So eating anything dead or alive goes along with that survival.
 
beautifullywild77 said:
Actually, most feed f/t or prekilled. Most don't get involved in these kind of threads because of the trollish behaviors that seem to pop up in them.

You might want to do a bit more research before you start saying that many if not most snake owners feed live prey or saying a "big" part of the community are live prey feeders. Its not economically to feed live nor is it safe. Most inexperienced snake owners will feed live is about the only thing that could be said. If you have a 500 dollar snake that will readily take f/t which risk such an investment in feeding live? Someone can do a poll on here or other snake sites and see how many feed live vs. f/t. I bet you would be wrong. I belong to a ball python site and a aussie python site and the majority of owners on those sites feed f/t or prekilled and advocate against the feeding of live. Not saying that some dont feed live because there are those that absolutely have to because some snakes will never take f/t or prekilled.
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I think the economical part kind of varies from keeper to keeper, someone such as myself who owns only one corn for instance. It would appear cheaper to start my own small colony, pre-kill then freeze what I need and sale the rest to others needing feeders. That being said it would cost no more or less to feed live it would be a matter of personal opinion. My self when I look at the pros and cons, the cons far out weight the pros, when it comes to live feeding of my corn snakes. So I will feed frozen and my colony will breeders will be checked for parasites prior to breeding. This debate gos on with other things as well my Therphosa Blondi can easily take down mice, and rats however the tarantula could be injured doing so, even though the tarantula is 14+ inches, do to this I feed dubia roaches, plus the fact some believe that calcium interfers with a tarantulas ability to molt by hardening their exoskeletons ( my self included in this group ) still you can find mice being feed live to these tarantulas on youtube, and the same type arguments take place on those forums. I just think it much better to try to educate instead of argue. If its wrong just state why its wrong and leave it to the reader to decide, there is always going to be a majority which go one way, so the reader should beable to make a educated decission.
 
beautifullywild77 said:
The essential part of any snake is survival. So eating anything dead or alive goes along with that survival.
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This is very well put. That statement right there ought to make me shut up about this and change the subject like I tried to do earlier, like how to help a snake lose weight?

Still, as soon as I get over the artificial feeling of prekilling or going the F/T route, only then will I switch from live. Unless it simply gets old, and that's probably what happens with experienced breeders, they have seen enough kills and the "snake hunting prey" show simply gets old for them so they stick with frozen for the economic and practical advantage.
 
beautifullywild77 said:
I can go to the store and buy a live or a f/t. F/t are cheaper at least at the store I buy them from.
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Lucky you! F/t is more expensive at the store I go to (by about $1 per mouse, and $1.50 per rat). However, they have their own little gas chamber, so I can select the proper feeder sizes for my animals and send them off to mousey doom. Do I like doing it? Heck no. I just haven't had the funds (or space) to make a bulk mousesicle purchase recently, so I've been going week by week (or every 5 days, in the case of my hatchlings). The gassing doesn't cost any extra, and it saves me from having to perform cervical dislocations at home.
 
Here frozen mice cost me $11.47 for six, small fuzzies, and to have them shipped is $50.00 from rodentpro for 100 of which most would probably feezer burn. Most the local raisers of feeders here will raise but not kill feeders, if you want it done you have to do it your self. That said having read about parasites I dont want to go that route either so it is safer for me to start the colony, thats why I say depends on where you are and what you have (as far as snakes to feed #).
 
7legion77 said:
This is very well put. That statement right there ought to make me shut up about this and change the subject like I tried to do earlier, like how to help a snake lose weight?

Still, as soon as I get over the artificial feeling of prekilling or going the F/T route, only then will I switch from live. Unless it simply gets old, and that's probably what happens with experienced breeders, they have seen enough kills and the "snake hunting prey" show simply gets old for them so they stick with frozen for the economic and practical advantage.
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Personally, I've never liked the hunt. When I got my first snake, and was feeding her pinkies, I'd always have to leave the room when she fed, because I just couldn't stand to hear the sounds of the squealing pinky.
 
If the mice you purchase from rodent pro are put in freezer bags they can last up to a year according to some sources.

Robbie. The mice and rats are still way more expensive than when I purchase my order from rodent pro.
 
beautifullywild77 said:
If the mice you purchase from rodent pro are put in freezer bags they can last up to a year according to some sources.

Robbie. The mice and rats are still way more expensive than when I purchase my order from rodent pro.
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I know it's more expensive, but I haven't had the funds all at once to make an order. I've been trying to save up for it, but I also have to take into account that I have a pretty small freezer. I don't have my large chest freezer anymore.
 
beautifullywild77 said:
I owned a milk snake 10 years ago and fed f/t. I do not believe it is a recent trend

But what I don't understand is the life and safety of my FREE corn snakes matter just as much as my fancy boa or my ball pythons. An adult mouse can do some pretty nasty damage.

My spotted python with strike, coil and "kill" a frozen thawed mouse, as well as my husbands pinstripe ball python, as well as my adult normal corn snake. I have babies that will with do it to f/t pinkies. The essential part of any snake is survival. So eating anything dead or alive goes along with that survival.
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I have owned snakes for 17 years and have always fed f/t.
I have the troll on ignore, is it still yapping away about how wonderful it is to have a killer as a pet?

Another feeling I have is that there are certain segments of the population who fear snakes, and can't view them as pets. These people are likely targets of the PETA and HSUS propaganda machine against the hobby. Feeding a live terrified small animal to a "pet", and bragging about having a killer under your roof only gives these groups and politicians more fuel, and does much more harm than good on the public relations front. Dogs, cats and other carnivorous pets eat prepared food and are considered companion animals and are not targeted by groups such as this. Bans are proposed all across this country as we speak, and although we should be pulling together, we also need to be aware of how this hobby looks to outsiders. Because ultimately the outsiders will decide this hobby's fate.
 
I love watching things hunt, I am not saying that from a snake owners view but as a tarantula breeder. Different Ts use differing tactics, and I would think snakes would be the same. Certain species such as the sand boa for instance. Of course the Ts are attacking roaches a little less loved and not quiet as cute as a mouse.
 
Oh ok... I read your post wrong LOL It's been one of those days where my brain hurts sorry!

But the f/t at the local mom and pop is cheaper than their live feeders are... example. 4 bucks for a f/t adult rat to 5 bucks for a live adult rat. They are one of the only pet stores in Alb. that offer live feeder rodents.
 
beautifullywild77 said:
Actually, most feed f/t or prekilled. Most don't get involved in these kind of threads because of the trollish behaviors that seem to pop up in them.

You might want to do a bit more research before you start saying that many if not most snake owners feed live prey or saying a "big" part of the community are live prey feeders. Its not economically to feed live nor is it safe. Most inexperienced snake owners will feed live is about the only thing that could be said. If you have a 500 dollar snake that will readily take f/t which risk such an investment in feeding live? Someone can do a poll on here or other snake sites and see how many feed live vs. f/t. I bet you would be wrong. I belong to a ball python site and a aussie python site and the majority of owners on those sites feed f/t or prekilled and advocate against the feeding of live. Not saying that some dont feed live because there are those that absolutely have to because some snakes will never take f/t or prekilled.
Click to expand...

beautifullywild77 said:
If the mice you purchase from rodent pro are put in freezer bags they can last up to a year according to some sources.

Robbie. The mice and rats are still way more expensive than when I purchase my order from rodent pro.
Click to expand...

Yes, Beautifullywild, but Ive seen some of your collection looking through pics, they are gorgeous by the way. Needless to say I dont have near the demand for feeders as you do.
 
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