just how fast does it take snakes to get scale rot anyhow?

[starsevol]

This is also what it appears to me. It's breeding season and it *sounds* like they are having territorial issues; I see males go through this every Spring. having two males in a tank at this time of year would definitely cause fighting and undue stress. I think this is common sense as far as most breeders would see it, just through years of observation.

I've had snakes knock over their water bowls and sit in wet aspen/water for a few days until i've noticed and never has scale rot been an issue. That tells me the snake under question has a larger than average stress level.

I agree. To a breeder this would be obvious. Sadly, it seems common sense is lacking in this case.

 

[Nanci]

I think someone should put two cats together in a Varikennel and see how well that goes over...

 

[starsevol]

I think someone should put two cats together in a Varikennel and see how well that goes over...

Good idea! Cats living in the same house have many rooms they can go in and are not forced in the company of other cats, unlike poor cohabbed mistreated abused snakes.....

 

[Alicia P]

OP I have no advise for the scale rot issue, but it sounds like you have a handle on the situation.

However I am also in the you should not cohab camp. I know you said you do not have the space for another tank, but the tank you have is 72" x 18" x 20" you could simply divide it it in half, making two 36" x 18" x 20" enclosures side by side, both plenty big for adult cornsnakes. If you move your UTH and thermostat to the middle then you don't even have to buy another heat mat.

Stress arguments aside, scale rot is a bacterial infection and as such it is potentially contagious, if you had not been cohabbing you would likely only be treating one snake for the condition instead of both. This holds true for other ailments and sicknesses as well. If one snake happens to regurge, how do you know which one did it? Same goes for funky poop. If one gets a respiratory virus, the other will probably get it too, etc... In the end it is completely your decision, but in the long run it will ultimately cost you more money because you have to treat both when an illness arises.

Also unless you have a way to watch your snakes 24/7 you can.not.know if they are fighting or bothering each other in the middle of the night, when you are at work or even when you are in another room.

Here is a vid of two male corn snakes that were put together as a test http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogmNZkRd9Zo
And here is one of two wild snakes who don't seem to like each other very much http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAjePRLlNlU

 

[BloodyBaroness]

Here's the thing, to the OP, do you honestly think we would waste our time, or even bother posting here if we did not have the best interest of your snakes in mind?

We could easily write you off and ignore you. However, the reason people are are giving you opinions on why not to cohab is because we care about long term the health a safety of your snakes.

In the end they are your snakes and you can do what ever you wish with them, but sit there and say "nothing is wrong" is foolish. Your snake are showing stress behaviors.

I wish you the best, I guess you are doing the best you can.

 

[Lyreiania]

I should think if my snakes were so stressed out, so unhappy, so miserable, that they would show signs of it. You say stress is a silent killer, but signs of stress in an animal such as a snake would be not eating, aggression. Snakes are not humans, to hold in stress or whatever emotional state they feel. Upset snakes show it. My snakes are gentle, and they eat very regularly. I do not think they would be eating if they were that disturbed. Snakes go off their food at any reason...stress should be among them

You stated the snakes dont feel companionship or sentiment. I should think your belief they are unhappy is equally potential anthropomorphizing. In the wild they may be solitary...doesnt mean a captive bred, non wild, domesticated snake is unhappy in a cohabbing situation.

"Abuse" and "killing" are words with actual defined meanings, and boundaries within those meanings, objective measures of what constitutes them. Phrases like "you are killing your snakes" are unfounded, to say the least. "Cruelty", however, is a bit more subjective...what one thinks is cruel, another may believe is kind. So, I can not dispute your belief that it is cruel...but I passionately disagree. I understand your words were motivated by what you believe is best for snakes.

On the topic, snakes seem better today though I think Adderal is a bit slower than normal. I hope they both shed and recover very soon.

 

[starsevol]

They ARE showing signs of it. You don't know what you are looking at. But I know you are doing the best you can.....

 

[diamondlil]

If the snakes were kept seperately you would only have one with scale rot as it's a bacterial infection.

 

[Lyreiania]

Not so...just cause one has it, does not mean the other WILL get it, even though it is contagious. It is not a given that the other snake WILL get it. I have had the experience of two cohabitating snakes where one got scale rot and the other did not.

 

[starsevol]

Not so...just cause one has it, does not mean the other WILL get it, even though it is contagious. It is not a given that the other snake WILL get it. I have had the experience of two cohabitating snakes where one got scale rot and the other did not.

Righttttttt. Nothing says "I love my sankes" more than that!! These animals depend on you for EVERYTHING. Let's not only crowd them into one cage, but let's keep them together even if one has a contagious disease!! Way to go!!!!!

Piss poor husbandry.

 

[diamondlil]

Not so...just cause one has it, does not mean the other WILL get it, even though it is contagious. It is not a given that the other snake WILL get it. I have had the experience of two cohabitating snakes where one got scale rot and the other did not.

Ok, I'll put it another way. If the snakes were in seperate enlosures the chances of more than one contracting the scale rot would be considerably smaller, given normal levels of hygiene practice.

 

[BloodyBaroness]

Not so...just cause one has it, does not mean the other WILL get it, even though it is contagious. It is not a given that the other snake WILL get it. I have had the experience of two cohabitating snakes where one got scale rot and the other did not.

Your snakes should not be getting scale rot period. Healthy well cared for snakes do not get scale rot. Scale rot means something is wrong in the environment in which they are being kept.

Poor husbandry and stress wearing out the immune systems are potential causes.

Scale rot is NOT normal or common in animals that are being cared for properly.

 

[Tara80]

Lyreiania, stress is not an emotion. You can look that up.

Plants feel stress. Trees feel stress when you cut them down.

It's not an "emotion", it's a flight/fight mechanism that all living organisms have.

 

[Nanci]

I fed them on March 19th and neither ate with their usual appetite,

My snakes...eat very regularly. I do not think they would be eating if they were that disturbed. Snakes go off their food at any reason...stress should be among them... I think Adderal is a bit slower than normal.

You _are_ observing signs of stress, whether you choose to interpret it as such or choose to ignore it. I'm sure you're doing the best you can.

 

[starsevol]

Your snakes should not be getting scale rot period. Healthy well cared for snakes do not get scale rot. Scale rot means something is wrong in the environment in which they are being kept.

Poor husbandry and stress wearing out the immune systems are potential causes.

Scale rot is NOT normal or common in animals that are being cared for properly.

This is true. Mojo, Syko and Stark have been spilling their water constantly for the past 2 weeks. I have come home to their tubs looking like a sauna.

And in 18 years of snake keeping, I have never even seen scale rot in real life.

The very FACT that you have scale rot in the first place means that something is wrong. And to knowingly expose the other snake to a contagious illness, what the hell are you thinking?????

 

[Lyreiania]

LOL. I very obviously did not make myself clear, I apologize for that. When I had the situation where one had it and the other did not, of course they were separated during its treatment; it is after all contagious. In this case, BOTH seem to have it, so there is no reason to separate them. BOTH are being treated concurrently. It is like two human patients who have the same disease being in the same hospital room. Patients with MRSA can be in the same room. This is no different.

As for scale rot, it happens, and does not have to be associated with bad husbandry. I keep my animals quite clean. I have been keeping snakes well over 10 years. In all that time, this is the second time Ive seen it (third if you count each snake as a separate event). IF it even is scale rot to begin with (though it likely is) I think my housing is OK



And if I divided their large tank into two, then I believe I would be cruel as neither snake would have enough room....I believe that its cruel if they can not stretch out fully in an enclosure.

 

[Isoldael]

Actually, scale rot is not necessarily a sign of stress. I've seen many healthy, well-kept snakes develop scale rot. I've seen many cohabbed snakes spill their water and not develop scale rot. Claiming that the scale rot in this case is a direct result of cohabbing is another unfounded consclusion.

 

[starsevol]

LOL. I very obviously did not make myself clear, I apologize for that. When I had the situation where one had it and the other did not, of course they were separated during its treatment; it is after all contagious. In this case, BOTH seem to have it, so there is no reason to separate them. BOTH are being treated concurrently. It is like two human patients who have the same disease being in the same hospital room. Patients with MRSA can be in the same room. This is no different.

As for scale rot, it happens, and does not have to be associated with bad husbandry. I keep my animals quite clean. I have been keeping snakes well over 10 years. In all that time, this is the second time Ive seen it (third if you count each snake as a separate event). IF it even is scale rot to begin with (though it likely is) I think my housing is OK



And if I divided their large tank into two, then I believe I would be cruel as neither snake would have enough room....I believe that its cruel if they can not stretch out fully in an enclosure.

Nope, your housing is not ok. If your cage split in half is not big enough for each snake, it sure as hell is not big enough is for 2.....they need to be in an enclosure where they can't even see each other.

And if you were keeping them properly, scale rot wouldn't happen.....

Healthy well kept snakes don't get scale rot. Apparently, yours are not healthy or well kept.

 

[BloodyBaroness]

Actually, scale rot is not necessarily a sign of stress. I've seen many healthy, well-kept snakes develop scale rot. I've seen many cohabbed snakes spill their water and not develop scale rot. Claiming that the scale rot in this case is a direct result of cohabbing is another unfounded consclusion.

Prove it. Prove to me that lower immune response due to stress does not have the possibility to cause scale rot.

 

[starsevol]

Actually, scale rot is not necessarily a sign of stress. I've seen many healthy, well-kept snakes develop scale rot. I've seen many cohabbed snakes spill their water and not develop scale rot. Claiming that the scale rot in this case is a direct result of cohabbing is another unfounded consclusion.

Prove it. Prove to me that lower immune response due to stress does not have the possibility to cause scale rot.

BB, I think her definition of healthy and well kept is quite a bit different than ours is!
I would like to see it proven as well.