Kastanie or what?

[NiklasTyreso]

Can this snake be a kastanie?

I post some pics of a snake I bought as a hatchling 2006. The mother were a grey-red corn looking like a Keys/rosacea.
The breeder did not show the father and just described it as a "strange" corn.

First pic is as a hatchling.
Second pic is from 2009.
The rest of the pics ar taken today.

I post a pic of the belly as it might be a marker for the masque trait.
The pics do not show the degree of red that the snake have, it is more red irl.

So, do you think this snake might be a (rather grey) kastanie?
If not, what kind of genetics give it its appearance?

 

[chris68]

I'm going to say "no".

"The breeder did not show the father and just described it as a "strange" corn."

There's never been a good reason that I've ever heard of a breeder refusing to show a snake, other than to completely muddy the answer to "what kind of genetics give it its appearance?"

 

[NiklasTyreso]

The breeder had a petshop and had had sold the male.

My snake was very light coloured as a hatchling, as kastanies use to be, but the chance of stumbling upon a kastanie in Sweden 2006 was about sero.

So, do you have any idea what genetics that might give my snake its look?

 

[chris68]

The breeder had a petshop and had had sold the male.

Aaahh makes more sense It doesn't "look" like one, but Kastanies are still pretty uncommon in the States, and I can only compare it to the one pair I have. There are many more EU and UK breeders who've worked with them over the years better suited to give you an educated guess...

 

[vetdebbie]

It doesn't look like any of our kastanies...

 

[Shiari]

If anything, I'm leaning towards it being a rootbeer.

 

[DMong]

I don't think it looks like a Kastanie either. Kastanies are a different tint and have more defined black boarders in their saddles. I would bet it is likely a corn x emoryi (rootbeer....sometimes called copper corns). The odd shaped and angled dorsal saddles are pretty typical in many as well.


cheers, ~Doug

 

[NiklasTyreso]

Thanks for your answers!

Yes, it looks very much as a rootbeer, maybe that is what she is.

My snake was the only one in the clutch with this pattern, that was the reason I bought this one. Patterns are most important for me.

I have not breed her (but plan t breed her to a masque anery male), so I probably have to inform buyers it might be a subspecies hybrid.

 

[chris68]

The belly pattern also is more uniform (Hopefully you see what I see when I say that) then you find in a typical "pure" corn. I would think you'd see the "masque" trait expressed visually on her head, but I don't know much about the trait. Neat looking snake, and thumbs up for trying to figure it out and letting future buyers know you think it's not 100% corn

 

[NiklasTyreso]

Thanks for your input! I'm more convinced now my snake probably is a rootbeer.

Some rootbeers do have strange belly check like two seen here: http://.com/forum/showthread.php?t=917
http://iansvivarium.com/morphs/species/elaphe_guttata/rootbeer/index.php

So, maybe I should not take my females mid belly stripe as an indication of masque.
Breeding to a masque male will tell if it is a rootbeer trait or the masque trait.

 

[JimGERcream]

I'd also tend to say "no" to kastanie.

You never know what happens with coluration when you outcross the morphs, but this one would look VERY different in comparison to the known kastanie lineages... I don't believe this animal is a kastanie. :shrugs:

 

[nmoore601]

What about the possible Kistanie that was on snake of the day yesterday. I want kistanie but cant find them.

 

[Tara80]

Kastanie is fairly hard to obtain in the US still. I think many of us breeders have been able to find a few sources but I had to import 2 of my 3 kastanie.

 

[Palmetto Reptiles]

Kastanie is fairly hard to obtain in the US still. I think many of us breeders have been able to find a few sources but I had to import 2 of my 3 kastanie.

We produced a few last year and all the ones we decided to part with went to one buyer. Some were morphs such as a suspected kastanie fire and anery motley kastanie. Should produce more this year.

dc

 

[DMong]

We produced a few last year and all the ones we decided to part with went to one buyer. Some were morphs such as a suspected kastanie fire and anery motley kastanie. Should produce more this year.

dc

Yep, You and Jim were the first thing that came to mind when "Kastanie" was mentioned.


cheers, ~Doug

 

[NiklasTyreso]

I'd also tend to say "no" to kastanie.

You never know what happens with coluration when you outcross the morphs, but this one would look VERY different in comparison to the known kastanie lineages... I don't believe this animal is a kastanie. :shrugs:

Thanks for your input!

She is a more likely a rootbeer.
The chance of finding a kastanie in Sweden 2006 were extremely low.

 

[Chip]

Rootbeers are awesome! Get that into some hypos and ghosts, and you'll have some of the coolest looking corns ever. Few breeders hate hybrids much more than me, and I love a rootbeer. Heck, I love emoryi, and consider them not a separate species at all, but a western corn. If taxonomy is ever genetically mapped, I'll bet my Volkmann P. guttatus and P. emoryi are the same species.

 

[Palmetto Reptiles]

In total agreement with Chip.

 

[nmoore601]

What about today's snake of the day?

 

[nicklandovich]

BHB has Kastanies for sale. A local shop in Denver gets corns from reptiles shows they do in Texas and other states. Not terribly pricey either. For some reason said local shop felt a 60 dollar mark up was the way to go....