Locality corns

[Shaky]

I am surprised that almost no one is working with locality corns (except Okeetee Hunt Club). Most of the wild ones i've seen in pics are gorgeous, and often outclass the CB normals I've seen. There is substantial variation in local populations, and in many other species, although the snakes look virtually identical from locale to locale, the breeders are extremely touchy about crossing them. I wonder why this particular aspect of the corn snake industry hasn't blossomed yet.
Even Okeetees and Miamis aren't really locale animals anymore.
I suppose the market just wouldn't be there for such a common snake.
I can think of a couple of locales that could be refined into really stunning animals.

 

[Russell]

agree and disagree...

I wholeheartedly agree that locality is a great thing. BUT! Reality check, you can find variations throughout the range. Not every snake from the Okeetee Hunt Club is going to look like my Edmund! And not every snake from the Miami area is going to look just like Carol's Miami line. Someone in North Carolina once showed a series of pics from snakes he'd caught in the wild, all from a very small area, and he had everything from nice looking Okeetee phase, different shades of normals, and one that you'd call a Miami just on looks alone!

So yeah, a basic area can have an average look, but there's still going to be plenty of variation. And if I bred two Miami looking corns from North Carolina together, the chances are many of the babies will also look Miami like. So then who sets the standard there?

Who decides what a Delaware, New Jersey, North Carolina, ect locality corn should look like?

A buddy of mine got wild caught Okeetee Hunt club animals from many many years back. And he's got four diff lines going now. The original group look. He's got what he calls the Best Okeetee line, cause they are much brighter and cleaner than the original group look. Then he's got what he calls Red Okeetee. They actually LACK the black in Okeetees. Look similar to hypo corns as adults. Then he's got a group of Hypo Okeetee lines. Another something that popped up. Oh then he's got the zig zag okeetee line. All from a small group of animals he got in, all locality stuff now. But all very much different from the original animals.

I'm all for locality! I love my Charleston line to death! I'm breeding them again this next spring. I'll have to practically give their babies away. But that's ok! They are similar to Okeetees, but not quite the same. But regardless, my picking and choosing mates will be the deciding factor of where this line goes. I can't possibly be as random as mother nature. And that's alright! I think every group of locality corns has something to offer. I'll always have Charlestons around. Not just for keeping a pure line of wild caught locality animals, but also for outcrossing.

Good post!

 

[Shaky]

Well, that sort of is the answer, right?
Every locality DOES have variations. That includes boa locales, pituophis locales, alterna, and on and on - everything. So why can't corns make the cut?
Perhaps its tha fact that locality craze came way after the morph craze started, and corns were already popular on the morph merit and very widespread. Other snakes only became popular in the last ten years or so as herping scores, and if you found it yourself, you named the locale.
So maybe its just too late for locality to make a difference in the corn trade.
Its pretty cool that you still do your Charlestons.
-Jack

 

[cka]

I really think it will come full circle, as so many more people get exposed via the 'Net to keeping corns year to year. You'll just have that many more people who will find the localities and normals more to their liking, making them that much more in demand. The fact that Russell has NON Okeetee Club breeders makes them (in my mind) valuable as an alternative to Okeetee Hunt Clubs as a distinct locality animal...On top of the fact they look great lol...

 

[Russell]

he he he

*cuddles his Charlestons a wee bit closer*

yep, love my normals! LOL! And thanks for the compliments! And yeah, every now and then at a show you have someone who just wants a nice normal corn. I always hand them a Charleston!

 

[Steve C]

I myself love to have locality animals, and some of my collection is, (More kingsnakes & other ratsnakes then corns) but you just don't see alot of adds with locality specific corns, other then the true locality okeetees. But atleast there are a few out there that work with locality corns. And I don't necessarily buy locality animals just for the sake of saying "Look, I have a Currituck, NC. Cornsnake". I have to like how the adults look. But if all things are equal, and they happen to be locality specific, that's an added bonus for me.
Most Cal. kings for sale are not locality animals, but if your into eastern kings, there's quite a bit of locality animals to be found out there. Look how popular Cal. kings are with all the different patterns. Banding, striped, combo of both. Then you have albinos, and other morphs. Similar in popularity like corns, with all the different morphs and patterns. Eastern kings? No morphs but a rare albino here & there. And many eastern keepers are skeptical of the origin of albino easterns. But unlike Cal. kings, you do see lots of locality specific Eastern kings. I think certain animals that tend to have tons of morphs would be one of the factors that would decrease the amount of locality animals being worked with. Another example would be the animals location. Grey band kings keepers are hard core with their west Texas localities. But why don't you see locality Thayeri Kings? Because they originate from Mexico, which have very strict export laws. Well, enough of my rambling. Great topic. Steve

 

[MegF.]

I have locality Okeetees from the Hunt Club and only one of the three look like the "traditional Okeetee look". They are all pure lines though back to w/c Hunt Club stock. We'll see what they produce this spring. I don't really like taking stuff from the wild as there are plenty of cornsnakes out there to choose from. I suppose if you saw an exceptional animal you might take it, but I prefer to observe them in their normal habitat and by parasite free, captive bred animals.

 

[danvega]

These guys specialize in localities:http://www.eastcoastcolubrids.com/ . I have seen them at a few shows--nice people too. One of my okeetees came from them (or at least guys they had a table with).

 

[Weebonilass]

I have locality Okeetees from the Hunt Club and only one of the three look like the "traditional Okeetee look". They are all pure lines though back to w/c Hunt Club stock. We'll see what they produce this spring. I don't really like taking stuff from the wild as there are plenty of cornsnakes out there to choose from. I suppose if you saw an exceptional animal you might take it, but I prefer to observe them in their normal habitat and by parasite free, captive bred animals.

I'm with you, MegF. I've seen them, watched them, took pictures when I had a camera handy and then left them to do what they do best... keep the rodent population down

 

[Steve C]

These guys specialize in localities:http://www.eastcoastcolubrids.com/ . I have seen them at a few shows--nice people too. One of my okeetees came from them (or at least guys they had a table with).

I agree DanVega. Peter Jolles from eastcoastcolubrids is an excellent guy with some outstanding animals. Peter does work and specialize with a good amount of locality animals, including several corn localities.

Steve

 

[Steve'sMom]

I think I'm going to end up getting into wild phases. Right now I have a breeding pair of ghosts, but only because my first snake (now 6 years old) is a ghost and he was begging for a girl every spring I also have a hatchling Okeetee from Kathy Love, a male Miami, and I have three others arriving in a week or so that I purchased....an upper keys and two neat looking w/c's from West Palm Beach. I don't know if I'll get mates for all of them (the WPB ones are a pair, but they're so different looking, I'm not sure if I want to mix them), maybe I'll just have them to look at, but I am more amazed with the variations Mother Nature comes up with than the ones we made. :cheers: