Miami Sunglow? oooookay...

[Joejr14]

There are amel Miami corns. And there are hypo Miami corns too. So a Miami that is both amel and hypo WOULD be a Miami sunglow.

Wut?

Crimson X Amel = Normals het hypo, amel; not normals het sunglow. Sunglow, again, is a selectively bred version of amelanism (not albino, Mr. Morph), therefore there cannot be a het sunglow.

I have a question though---what do you get when you cross a candy cane x normal?

And that question is for Mark ONLY.

 

[Serpwidgets]

Why do I get the feeling no one knows what a sunglow really is?

Simple: because you don't know what a sunglow really is.

 

[cka]

I think i can see where this is leading to...remember someone going around saying his Sunglows were the only sunglows in town, because they were Hypo Amels, and not just line bred amels?...

I guess instead of calling these miami's "Sunglows" how about "Coral" (hypo + amel) Miami's...better yet not everyone is sold on the fact that amelanism doesnt just mask hypo, so it may be best to call them "investigation in progress" Miami's :*)

 

[Menhir]

I think I should teach you some genetics...

Cross a PitBull with a German Shepherd. In the F1 you will get all normals het. PitBull, Shepherd.
In the F2 you get:

Normals 66%poss.het.PitBull, Shepherd
PitBulls 66%poss.het.Shepherd
Shepherd 66%poss.het. PitBull
PitBullShepherd

PitBullShepherd is equal to MiamiSunglow.
That is so easy - I can't understand that some people don't understand that.

[Disclaimer]That post contains the truth, and only the truth. And if someone says something different, he doesn't have a clue of what is right and wrong.[/Disclaimer]

 

[Rich Z]

In reference to the term "Sunglow", that name has changed it's definition over the years. Matter of fact, a long while back I sold a bunch of Amelanistic Motleys to some people, and later on I found that some of them were referring to the babies from that stock when they sold them as "Sunglow Motleys".

Names will change over time, either through misunderstanding, or even as a marketing tool to try to enhance the perception of the animal in the mind of potential buyers. What "Sunglow" really means today might be different things to many different people.

 

[Serpwidgets]

As usual, definition comes from usage by the masses, and in the corn world, the usage has not really changed. Yes, in the boa world they use sunglow for hypo + amel. These are not boas they are cornsnakes.

Nobody has shown a credible source out there using "hypo + amel is the only way to have a sunglow cornsnake" and everyone who is selling sunglows defines them as no-white amels (and when it's expanded upon, they add bright ground color to the definition.)

So if a miami is idealized as having no ground color, and a sunglow is idealized as having bright ground color, then a "miami sunglow" makes as much sense as calling a normal sized snake a "giant dwarf."

 

[ecreipeoj]

The Boa World definition of “Sunglow” does seem to be used in this case. I can see where that would confuse people who are new to the Boa or Corn World when they cross over. I agree and disagree with quite a bit in this thread. One thing that is for sure, is that the usage of the term of Sunglow is evolving.

Don S use to use homo Hypo Amels to enhance the glow of his Sunglows. I know that I have a couple of his Sunglow Motleys that are homo for Hypo. I do not believe that Amel mask Hypo completely as some people think. Adding Hypo to Amel does seem to brighten the reds to orange and reduce the white areas. Many Hypos are borderless and this trait would certainly help an Amel to be a Sunglow. I actually think there is a gene or trait for Corns to be borderless and therefore help to make Sunglows.

A Sunglow Corn can not have white or it is not a Sunglow. A Sunglow should be very brightly colored and adding Hypo to the mix will enhance the glow if you ask me. I am not 100% comfortable with the Sunglow Corn definition as being a no white Amel if it would include a dull Amel with no glow at all. There does seem to be a gene or genes that effect the glossiness of a Corn. Some are very dull and some shine like a newly waxed car. I think a Sunglow should be very glossy looking in addition to not having any white areas.

There are other factors to consider as well. What about a Red on Red Amel with no white? Or how about a Sunglow that is het for Caramel. Does a Orange Amel with yellow background color qualify as a Sunglow if it doesn’t have any white? That would make the range of Sunglow color to be from very red to very yellow and a mix of everything in-between if we stick with the no white definition. I seem to remember in the old days that Sunglows were bright orange with no white and did not have hypo in the mix in the beginning.

I personally think that a Sunglow should be a very bright orange Amel with no white. How you get to that morph doesn’t really matter. Adding Hypo to the mix of Amel and Snows seems to have some added phonotypical bonuses other than just being homo for an addition gene so I do not think it is mask.

 

[Billybobob]

I personally think that a Sunglow should be a very bright orange Amel with no white. How you get to that morph doesn’t really matter. Adding Hypo to the mix of Amel and Snows seems to have some added phonotypical bonuses other than just being homo for an addition gene so I do not think it is mask.

Joe you have a well thoughtout post but in the last part it(the part quoted above) it seems like you think that people are saying that no amel with hypo is a sunglow. This is not what we have been saying. Yes a hypo amel can be a sunglow but Mark'sMorphs was trying to say that a miami that was het for hypo and amel was het for sunglow which is wrong and that is what i believe everyone was trying to say.

 

[ecreipeoj]

Since I prefer Red Amels over orange ones, any Sunglows that I have had better burn my eyes and I want them to be homo for Hypo or there will be something else in the cage.

I guess I will have to come up with a name for a no white bright Amel Lava. Sunburst Corns may work. When the Lava gene is added to an Amel Okeetee, it helps in a big way to remove the white areas or it changes them to orange. It would be interesting to see what an Amel Lava would look like from a Sunglow line or borderless line. I only have ones from Amel Okeetee lines. Many of the Lavas are borderless, so a borderless Amel Lava is not far off.

 

[ChristopherD]

im sure they just did Miami x Sunglow. Question why advertise this Who'd want em never mind pay for them and freight

 

[Serpwidgets]

Joe, I don't think the definition has changed. It has always meant a no-white amel that burns your eyes, and still does.

Hypo never was (and still is not) a necessary part of that equation. I believe that hypo can have an effect on amels, but still, it's not like you can pick hypo amels out of a group of amels.

It is quite obvious that the person posting the ad doesn't know what they're talking about... this is not a case of "the definition has changed" but rather a case of "some idiot crossed two corns and doesn't know what he hatched so he just made up a word that sounds marketable."

 

[Rich Z]

Hypo never was (and still is not) a necessary part of that equation. I believe that hypo can have an effect on amels, but still, it's not like you can pick hypo amels out of a group of amels.

I've been hatching out amelanistics of just about every line of hypo combinations I can think of for years, and so far, at least as babies, there is really nothing at all that I can see that would differentiate one of those hypo amelanistics from the regular amelanistics in the same clutch. Perhaps something may have shown up at maturity, but unless there is a marked difference as babies, there is no real reason for me to consider holding onto them. However this year I am going to try to hold back a few amels that came out of some Hypo Okeetees as well as some that came from some Crimsons, just for grins. I figure they are pretty much opposite ends of the spectrum, so we'll see how they turn out and whether the hypo gene in them makes a real difference.

I just believe that other influences are at work. For instance, many people will select hypos for not only the brighter colors but also for the deeper red coloration some of the stock they originate from might exhibit. When amelanistics would pop out of such lines, I don't think it should come as much of a surprise that those resulting amelanistics might exhibit the influence of the red coloration that the hypo line would contribute to the mix. Hell, I have hatched out snows that same out of my Pastel Ghost mix for years. Since the pastels I work with tend to have very pink blotches to them at maturity, it is not rocket science to expect that the snows from such a line might exhibit such coloration as well, is it?


How about some photos?

Amelanistic Crimsons:

Amelanistic Hypo Okeetees:

The next one did not come from Sunkissed parents, but instead came from Okeetees that were het for Sunkissed, Charcoal, and Amelanism:

 

[Joejr14]

That sunkissed amel is hot. Definitely a TON of potential with the sunkissed gene---too bad it's been overlooked for so long.

 

[Paradigmboas]

So if a miami is idealized as having no ground color, and a sunglow is idealized as having bright ground color, then a "miami sunglow" makes as much sense as calling a normal sized snake a "giant dwarf."

So if a Okeetee is idealized as having wide black borders how can you have an Albino Okeetee with no black borders? By your logic this would be the same as a "giant dwarf." You can't have it both ways serp. Now of course I know you can have a albino okeetee because they are based on Okeetee parent stock. Just as a amel or hypo Miami phase is based on Miami stock.
All the rest is just silly name games.

 

[Paradigmboas]

I have a question though---what do you get when you cross a candy cane x normal?

And that question is for Mark ONLY.

Of course you would get all normals het for amel. But if the normal was a Miami phase and the candy cane was base on the Miami phase then you would get Miami phase het for amel. Why do you ask?

 

[Paradigmboas]

Sorry. I logged in on an old name.

 

[Paradigmboas]

Don I believe has said before that his sunglow line started with a hypo parent.

That's right. And so did I. I purchase my first sunglow from L. Lemke back in the early 90's. They were homo for amel and hypo. Lemke also sold no-white amels but those with hypo in them had a nicer look to me.
My other sunglows were purchase from Glades herp back when it was owned by Bill and Kathy Love. This was a very long time ago. According to Bill they didn't breed these themselves but he was fairly certain they were both amel and hypo.

 

[Paradigmboas]

Sorry to say, but you're in the very vast minority of people who think that sunglows are homo hypo.

That is VERY true. I'm happy I started with the animals I did. I would feel ripped off to have just purchased a no-white amel as a true sunglow....I needed the hypo gene at that time for other projects.

 

[Serpwidgets]

So if a Okeetee is idealized as having wide black borders how can you have an Albino Okeetee with no black borders? By your logic this would be the same as a "giant dwarf." You can't have it both ways serp.

Umm, the idea is thick borders. Those are still present on REVERSE Okeetees or albino okeetees.

Seriously, let's not pretend as if we have no common sense in order to make an argument, it's dishonest.

 

[Paradigmboas]

In reference to the term "Sunglow", that name has changed it's definition over the years. Matter of fact, a long while back I sold a bunch of Amelanistic Motleys to some people, and later on I found that some of them were referring to the babies from that stock when they sold them as "Sunglow Motleys".

Names will change over time, either through misunderstanding, or even as a marketing tool to try to enhance the perception of the animal in the mind of potential buyers. What "Sunglow" really means today might be different things to many different people.

Well said Rich!