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Migration thoughts- where would you go?

Kokopelli

Kokopelli

Resident Boa Fanatic
So... I spoke about it in the past, and it's a bit of ways off, but... my wife and I want to leave Israel... lots of reason... primarily stress and the fact that making it is infinitely more expansive to live here than in other countries... this is not an opinion, these are just facts anyone can look up in statistical reports- income per capita, expanses, etc.

So... what are our options...

Europe/Germany- we don't know German, but I do have a citizenship.

USA- I signed up for the annual greencard raffle... odds aren't that high... 3% per year...

Canada- Our odds should be OK, I'll have an MBA by the time I apply, should do OK for the "Professional/Federal" Worker route.

So... if you faced the same choice, which would it be, do you reckon?
 
Wow that must be hard to leave your country. Well, if I had to choose from those 3 it would be Canada.
What about someplace more exotic, thailand or malaysia, japan or Australia.I have never traveled so dont know the rules about living in those countries but sure sounds like fun to me.
 
joann42 said:
What about someplace more exotic, thailand or malaysia, japan or Australia.I have never traveled so dont know the rules about living in those countries but sure sounds like fun to me.
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That sounds fun on paper, but ultimately, actually living there as a married 30 year old? If I was a deal younger and felt like going out for the experience of it... sure, but beyond that... culture's too different from what we know, leaving a country has enough challenges without seeking extras :)

Malaysia- from what I understand, you wouldn't want to be a Jew there :p. I don't really consider myself "Jewish" as far as religion goes, I'm an atheist, but that distinction doesn't always mean much to people who feel like hating you.

Australia- a bit harder to bring our dogs with us, though not impossible. Everything's so insanely venomous though, I am not Steve Irwin(RIP) :p

Let's take the US out of the question,

Germany,

Pros:
* Booming economy,

* All of Europe at my fingertips(EU citizenship)- no need to go through any procedure.

* HAMM- come on, you can't be a reptile lover and not drool at the thought of living next to the one of the largest global expos... especially as I lived where there are none.

* Solid healthcare, education, a wellfare state.

* Higher GDP than Canada.

*Closer to Israel- if anything happens, I am a relatively short flight away from my family.

Cons:
*Foreign language, my wife has a considerable A.D.D to boot so though she knows a bit of English, I suspect German will be very hard on her.

*I understand they are a bit closed towards foreigners, and emotions are running high towards foreigners all over Europe

* A bit concerned about the expressed feelings towards Israelis and Jews there... I am not going to run around preaching pro-Israel, and I am not going to try to change anything to fit what I know, I am leaving all of it behind, but someone might overhear my wife and I speak Hebrew or whatnot...

Canada:

Pros:

*Beautiful beautiful country

*Still better conditions than what's available in Israel.

*Welcoming towards foreigners, the government is pro-Israel... doesn't mean much other than the fact that I can probably be less guarded and concerned.

* Still better herp culture and expos than what I have here.

Cons:

* Extremely far from Israel- something happens, it can take an entire day for me to get there(and very expansive).

* Lower GDP, generally speaking, the economy is not as good as it is in Germany.

* THE WEATHER OMG THE WEATHER- either freezing cold or tropic humidity with huge mosquito... that's what I heard at least.


Lastly- in Canada I need to pull through the immigration procedure... most odds are that I'll do fine, but it's not as guaranteed as a country for which I have a citizenship.

More thoughts and opinions would be awesome.
 
It's probably going to be difficult getting opinions from people who haven't lived in the countries you're asking about, although we have many Canadian members here. I think it's sad that you are leaving your country!

Why not come to the good old US of A? We let everyone in, legal or not, lol! Get your food, medical care, school lunches for your kids, all free! (Rich, where's the sarcasm font?)

Seriously, I would suggest Canada if the US isn't an option for you. Canada is indeed beautiful, decent economy, medical technology comparable to the US, although some people come here for care, mostly due to wait-times to see specialists. I'm near Detroit, and have met some people who drove over to see doctors here. We also have similar weather - bone-chilling cold in the winter, and hot, sticky summers. However, that's just the Midwest. This country is huge, and has widely varying climates.

As I'm sure you know, there is no utopian place to live on this planet, and every country sucks, on some level. Yes, I'm biased, but I think the US sucks a lot less than some other countries.

Kathy
 
Well I have the utmost respect for the US, I do- enough to have no desire to exploit it illegally, and the legal means are simply limited...

I can try and get a job... but people who get work visas can find themselves under their employer's heel... one wrong move and you need to vacate your life... if I were single, maybe... but put my wife at such a risk? I can't do that.

There are allot of reasons I want to leave Israel... the stress is something that is slowly killing me. Building a family here is very difficult... I served my country for 3 years in the military- serving is mandatory, but combat service is not... I consider my debt paid.

I have a good job, and in 6-7 months I'll be done with my Master's degree... but my parents did not come from money, and they may even need my help... I can't possibly provide that here... food and rent are expansive, moreso than in any other OECD country save for possibly Greece right now.

And I know there are people from Canada here, hence why I asked... and it's always good to hear other people's opinions.

Anywhoo, I know you joked about the illegal thing, but I really would never consider doing such a thing- people work hard and pay taxes, I am not willing to be a parasite.

I'm hoping to be able to contribute where I go to live- I want to work, and just be able to build a good life for my wife and me, not at anyone's expense.
 
Kokopelli said:
Anywhoo, I know you joked about the illegal thing, but I really would never consider doing such a thing- people work hard and pay taxes, I am not willing to be a parasite.

I'm hoping to be able to contribute where I go to live- I want to work, and just be able to build a good life for my wife and me, not at anyone's expense.
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And that's why we need more people like you!

Obviously, you speak and write English very well; have you considered the UK?

Kathy
 
Out of your choices, I would pick Canada. I would pick the Vancouver area, it is amazing! I am biased, being in the PNW, I love it here!

Vancouver is just over 2 hrs drive time for me, and while I haven't been there in a while, I love having the ability to go anytime I want.
 
insomniac101 said:
And that's why we need more people like you!

Obviously, you speak and write English very well; have you considered the UK?

Kathy
Click to expand...

Spooks the living daylights out of me actually.
I hear that the rise of Islam there is a real reason for concern.
Again, I couldn't care less regarding religious reasons... but I am moving partially because I wish to feel safe, and I'm not sure how safe I'll feel there... I honestly do not know though.

MysticExotics said:
Out of your choices, I would pick Canada. I would pick the Vancouver area, it is amazing! I am biased, being in the PNW, I love it here!

Vancouver is just over 2 hrs drive time for me, and while I haven't been there in a while, I love having the ability to go anytime I want.
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Thanks for the input!
I reviewed the requirements, technically, I am supposed to be able to meet the requirements but one never knows.

There IS allot to the fact that I -have- a German citizenship... quite a few of my family were German, well, you know, until world war II...
Being entitled to all rights immediately -is- somewhat of an advantage...

I might end up trying my luck and enter the skilled worker pool once I am done with my degree... it's kind of luck-based too since there's a lottery of sorts amongst the candidates.
 
Personally I'd choose Europe. If I were to leave the US I think I'd be heading to the Netherlands. Utrecht or Amsterdam, or maybe Groningen. I think Germany, Denmark, and Belgium would be interesting too. Really all of Europe just seems interesting to me :) I like how bicycle friendly they are.
 
Kokopelli said:
Spooks the living daylights out of me actually.
I hear that the rise of Islam there is a real reason for concern.
Again, I couldn't care less regarding religious reasons... but I am moving partially because I wish to feel safe, and I'm not sure how safe I'll feel there... I honestly do not know though.
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Yes, that is a very valid concern. I live about 20 miles from the largest Muslim community in the U.S., which is Dearborn, Michigan. The community is very tight-knit, and mostly keeps to themselves. We're also just a few miles from a largely-Jewish community, West Bloomfield, Michigan.

Other than the language barrier, Germany seems to be a viable option for you. I still think the US would be best, but what do I know?! ☺

Kathy
 
Canada's weather very much depends on where you go. If you don't like cold, then don't go to Winnipeg. :) Or Edmonton.

Basically, the west coast (Vancouver and area) is the most gentle. Rarely below 0 degrees Celsius, even in the depths of winter, though it rains a lot.

Calgary can get cold, but only for a short while. Chinooks blow through regularly, which warms the city during the winter. Edmonton doesn't get chinooks, and neither does anywhere in Saskatchewan, so the winter sets in for the long haul.

Winnipeg sounds horrible even to me, and I live in Yellowknife, so don't even consider it. :p

Ottawa is supposed to be beautiful, Toronto is an industrial wasteland (What I saw of it, anyway) I've never been to Quebec or the maritimes, but the government in Quebec aggressively pursues francophone dominance, and it can be tough to be an anglophone in parts of the province other than Montreal.

Like I said, I live in Yellowknife and I absolutely love it up here, though the temperate can drop to -50 Celsius sometimes, so......

But the Aurora is amazing this far north.
 
insomniac101 said:
Other than the language barrier, Germany seems to be a viable option for you. I still think the US would be best, but what do I know?! ☺

Kathy
Click to expand...

US would be awesome, but it is also my least likely of options... I mean, I simply have zero means of getting in... I have an automatic Visa, but I need to live, work, blah blah... and the procedure is quite lengthy and complex.
I have 3% chance to win the greencard lottery... I will either end up being obnoxiously lucky, or not :p

Nova_C said:
Canada's weather very much depends on where you go. If you don't like cold, then don't go to Winnipeg. :) Or Edmonton.

Basically, the west coast (Vancouver and area) is the most gentle. Rarely below 0 degrees Celsius, even in the depths of winter, though it rains a lot.

Calgary can get cold, but only for a short while. Chinooks blow through regularly, which warms the city during the winter. Edmonton doesn't get chinooks, and neither does anywhere in Saskatchewan, so the winter sets in for the long haul.

Winnipeg sounds horrible even to me, and I live in Yellowknife, so don't even consider it. :p

Ottawa is supposed to be beautiful, Toronto is an industrial wasteland (What I saw of it, anyway) I've never been to Quebec or the maritimes, but the government in Quebec aggressively pursues francophone dominance, and it can be tough to be an anglophone in parts of the province other than Montreal.

Like I said, I live in Yellowknife and I absolutely love it up here, though the temperate can drop to -50 Celsius sometimes, so......

But the Aurora is amazing this far north.
Click to expand...

Awesome input!
Amazing how you've never been to entire zones in your country... Israel is such a speck of the map, it is very uncommon not to know 99% of the areas :p

I am leaning towards Canada as my "plan B"... the fact that I -have- a German citizenship and the fact that Berlin has tons of people from all over the world... I think it's a good idea to try there first. Worst case, I pursue Canada from there.
 
Yeah. I mean, just to go from my hometown of Calgary to where I live now in Yellowknife is a 20 hour drive. And that's on the shorter north-south axis. Driving from Vancouver, BC to Halifax, Nova Scotia would take days. I think it'd be like driving from London to Moscow. :p
 
Holy crap,
6 hours of drive, roughly, will get you from the northern border to the south.
In about 2-3 you can get across east to west here :p
 
I have to admit that I find it interesting, if not disconcerting, that no matter how badly we feel things are here in the USA, many people in other countries would still prefer to be here rather than in their own countries. "Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" sort of thing, or are things just really THAT bad all over the world?
 
As a Swede who came to the US I would say Germany..
Financially and futuristic you are better off with Europe. Canada is decent but medical care etc is not as up to par. Medical is very important..
 
Kokopelli said:
Holy crap,
6 hours of drive, roughly, will get you from the northern border to the south.
In about 2-3 you can get across east to west here :p
Click to expand...

It's a 5 hr drive from western Washington (state) to eastern end of the state.

I am biased, and I still feel that the PNW (including Vancouver BC) is the best place to live. I don't mind the rain, and I appreciate our milder climate.

It is absolutely beautiful here too!

If Germany is the better fit for you, I say pick there. Occasionally I have wondered what it would be like to live in a different country, especially when a couple of friends of mine are picking up and moving to Ireland. (He has family there, and they visit there often). Initially, they were going to wait until after their current dogs passed away, because of the quarantine process, but they found a service to transport them without the 6 month quarantine, so they decided to move now.
 
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