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More proof the Pet Stores are an animals hell.

Sacred_Nightmares

Sacred_Nightmares

Only slightly crazy...
A few weeks ago, I just went into a local pet store "Pet World" to grab an adult mouse for my snake since I was in the same shopping plaza and it was convenient. What a horrible shock it was when I FIRST walked through the door. Right in the front, is a large cage with a very very sick chameleon in such terrible condition. My heart just shattered for the poor little guy. I took a picture with my phone to share. I wish there was more I could do, but the store probably won't get shut down or anything since all of the dogs and other small mammals were in a healthier condition. And did I mention how rancid the place smelled? Ugh! It was atrocious and nauseating. :nope:



The only other animal abuse I could tell was in another tank with some sort of green tree frogs who had no humidity and the water dish had run dry. What a terrible terrible place. I'm never going back there again. :angry01:
 
Pepper said:
I'm not a cham person, how could you tell it was sick?
Click to expand...

Can you not see the ribs protruding horribly?

When lizards are noticeably that skinny it's usually due to illness, poor husbandry, insufficient heating and lighting or not being offered the correct food.

I highly suspect that poor chameleon is kept in the wrong conditions which may have lead to some sort of illness which may have caused it to stop eating. Thus also causing problems such as metabolic bone disorder (which I am not very experienced with, however the angle of that chams limbs to it's body suggest there is some bone softening due to lack of calcium aka MBD.)

Lizards are not my thing as they are just so complicated. It takes a lot of work and dedication to keep a chameleon a happy camper.
 
Thanks, for pointing all of that Elle. I'm not a lizard person either, so I was looking at overall color and the fact that it seems to be actively crawling on it's tree. After what you described, it's horrifying to see. I truly hate pet stores that sell exotic animals. They never ever seem to be cared for properly so people feel the need to "rescue" them, which simply profits the store monetarily and they get more animals that end up in the same condition. Props for the OP for realizing a horrible store but NOT trying to "save" the animal in question. We can't save them all, unfortunately.
 
That Cham is in pretty bad shape, for sure. There are two little bumps on it's ribs that are abnormal. Looks like MBD or broken ribs, but I doubt broken ribs would heal so horribly in two different spots to the same degree...

My question is for the OP...

Did you buy the mouse or go somewhere else?

If you purchased your mouse there, congratulations, you have put profit in the pocket of this shop, and helped them to continue treating their animals with no respect and without proper care.

If you decided to purchase your mouse somewhere...good for you.

Pet stores don't make money on pets. They can't. When you calculate the cost of food, housing, heating, and the hourly wages of employees caring for them daily, it is nearly impossible to make a profit from animals in a pet shop.

Profit is invariably made on hard good purchases, "toys", and food supplies. Most shops that sell feeder mice breed their own. As mice are incredibly voracious breeders, it is easy to make a profit on a mouse. If you go into a pet store with deplorable conditions and make a purchase because it is cheaper, closer, easier, or more convenient...you are contributing to the demise of these animals. If, however, you make the extra effort, extra drive, extra time, and increased cost for your mouse by making your purchase at a quality store that might be slightly less convenient, than you are helping these animals.

So...did you buy the mouse?
 
tyflier said:
That Cham is in pretty bad shape, for sure. There are two little bumps on it's ribs that are abnormal. Looks like MBD or broken ribs, but I doubt broken ribs would heal so horribly in two different spots to the same degree...

My question is for the OP...

Did you buy the mouse or go somewhere else?

If you purchased your mouse there, congratulations, you have put profit in the pocket of this shop, and helped them to continue treating their animals with no respect and without proper care.

If you decided to purchase your mouse somewhere...good for you.

Pet stores don't make money on pets. They can't. When you calculate the cost of food, housing, heating, and the hourly wages of employees caring for them daily, it is nearly impossible to make a profit from animals in a pet shop.

Profit is invariably made on hard good purchases, "toys", and food supplies. Most shops that sell feeder mice breed their own. As mice are incredibly voracious breeders, it is easy to make a profit on a mouse. If you go into a pet store with deplorable conditions and make a purchase because it is cheaper, closer, easier, or more convenient...you are contributing to the demise of these animals. If, however, you make the extra effort, extra drive, extra time, and increased cost for your mouse by making your purchase at a quality store that might be slightly less convenient, than you are helping these animals.

So...did you buy the mouse?
Click to expand...

Wow, that didn't take long. :rolleyes:
 
*twitch* Ugh, poor guy. I walked out of a shop I once liked recently because they changed ownership and the new owners clearly don't know much about husbandry. It made me sad, the place used to be exceptional as pet stores go.
 
bkelm18 said:
Wow, that didn't take long. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
My post wasn't accusatory, condescending, argumentative, insulting, or demeaning to anyone. It was a legitimate reply, followed by a legitimate question.

If the nature of my question, or it's potential answer, bothers you, than it is up to you(and anyone else it bothers) to re-evaluate the manner in which you(or they) deal with bad pet shops.

Ultimately...all the internet ranting and raving and picture-posting in the world won't do a bit of good to change the nature of a really bad pet store if you(or anyone else) continues to purchase there because it is faster/easier/closer/cheaper/more convenient. The ONLY way to actually make a positive impact on a shop like this is to refuse to do business with them.

"Rescuing" that little mouse by purchasing it to feed to a snake only puts more profit in the shop. "Rescuing" the sick/hurt/dying animals by purchasing them only allows the shop to purchase more. ANY business you conduct inside that shop only serves to keep the shop open and active in it's mistreatment of animals.

So what's wrong with me asking the OP what he chose to do?:shrugs:
 
Just wanted to add...if the OP chose to go somewhere else to buy his mouse, than they deserve Kudos for making an excellent choice, and I will be first person to give them a virtual pat on the back, and make sure to NOT go to that shop should I ever find myself in the area.

If the OP chose to buy the mouse, than they deserve to feel guilty and/or sorry for purchasing their mouse there. Simple as that, in my opinion...

I don't understand why I am "The Bad Guy" for asking the obvious question...
 
I did NOT know which items in a pet store were profitable. I appreciate this info. I stopped buying most supplies at Petco/Petsmart BECAUSE they sold reptiles & didn't house them very well, so I try to buy my cat & snake consumables at 2 independent stores (one of which sells some reptiles but they look well cared for & the other sells no animals whatsoever).

So Chris has given me useful info. That is, I REALLY don't want to buy feeders at Petsmart/Petco & that I should try to continue what I've been doing so as not to provide profit to those places.

I also didn't think it was a terribly accusatory posting.
 
tyflier said:
Ultimately...all the internet ranting and raving and picture-posting in the world won't do a bit of good to change the nature of a really bad pet store if you(or anyone else) continues to purchase there because it is faster/easier/closer/cheaper/more convenient. The ONLY way to actually make a positive impact on a shop like this is to refuse to do business with them.

"Rescuing" that little mouse by purchasing it to feed to a snake only puts more profit in the shop. "Rescuing" the sick/hurt/dying animals by purchasing them only allows the shop to purchase more. ANY business you conduct inside that shop only serves to keep the shop open and active in it's mistreatment of animals.

So what's wrong with me asking the OP what he chose to do?:shrugs:
Click to expand...

Everytime I see threads about pet shop conditions, I always wonder if the person posting made a purchase there also, thus supporting the pet shop.
I will boycott a pet store entirely if I notice distressed animals, as is noted, you only add to their bottom line, no matter how small the purchase.
Not every pet store is bad in my opinion. I think there are some very good ones. Many of the larger "chain" pet stores problem is that they have poorly trained staff and not so knowledgable managers. For those who just make small purchases such as feeder mice or insects, I'd encurage them to seek out a local source rather than support a pet shop that puts profits about animal welfare.
 
I couldn't agree more. We had two shops that were locally owned in my area. I always shopped there because I wanted to give them my business rather than the large chains that the locals couldn't possibly compete with. Both were roughly 45 minutes away, but I always planned accordingly. One day, I walked into one of them and found that they were selling tattooed parrot fish. I told the manager why he was losing my business and I've never been back. Sometimes even when you try to do the right thing, you fail.
 
There are SOME pet stores that are well run, clean, and have healthy animals. Not all are, but some.

THAT store obviously has a staff that has no idea how to take care of it's more demanding animals, which is stupid.
 
I have actually found a pet store that isn't horrible with their animals. It is a privately owned business, and the owners are all professional reptile keepers/breeders (one is currently breeding his 'boons). It is amazing how well the animals look compared to petsmart or petco.
 
There are good independent pet shops - these certainly deserve our support. To say that all pet shops are bad because there's one bad one (from a chain already known to be less than great), is a little extreme.

Even going into a bad chain store could give them oxygen if someone's measuring footfall i.e. the number of people entering. Buying anything - even as a rescue - is just feeding them and giving them an excuse to buy more animals. Just stay away.

Find a bad shop? Boycott it. Then - perhaps more importantly - spread the word to everyone you know who might give them business.

You can't save all mistreated animals, so try to cut the problem off at the root.
 
We try to support our local herp guy when possible. He will order stuff for me that I just can't get at a chain store, which is great.

I am just playing the devil's advocate here, but might that cham have been a rescue taken in by the store? I know our local guy will take in sick animals from time to time and bring them back to good health before rehoming them.

Depending on the time of day, and the size of the dish, an empty water bowl could also just be morning... and the staff have not quite gotten to them yet.
 
Hypancistrus said:
We try to support our local herp guy when possible. He will order stuff for me that I just can't get at a chain store, which is great.

I am just playing the devil's advocate here, but might that cham have been a rescue taken in by the store? I know our local guy will take in sick animals from time to time and bring them back to good health before rehoming them.

Depending on the time of day, and the size of the dish, an empty water bowl could also just be morning... and the staff have not quite gotten to them yet.
Click to expand...

There are some excellent points here. Some people participating in this thread may not "know me" the way some others do, so maybe some background info will help all to understand where I am comnig from...

I work in a pet shop. I pretty much run the place. Not so much the parrots, but the reptile department and rodents are all mine. This is a good shop. Clean, gorgeous animals, always well cared for. I wouldn't work there if it were any other way. Many of the snakes I've bred sell through this shop, and I know every animal that comes and goes through that front door.

We get "rescues". In fact, and this is no lie or exaggeration, I'll take pictures and post them to prove it, this very morning after I replied to this thread, I walked in to work after 2 days off and found a very sickly-looking Veiled Chameleon in the cage. He looked old. Reasonably healthy, if a tad skinny, good color, clear eyes, mouth and nostrils...just old. REALLY old, and frail.

He is 7 years and some change, which is well over average life expectancy for these guys. He was brought in yesterday, and the guy just wanted him to have a peaceful place to die. The owner of the shop had no intention of selling, just put him in a nice cage and gtave him some crickets and mealworms.

Anyone walking in to the shop would see a "chameleon in horrible shape". Even worse...he is absolutely going to die of 100% natural causes and old age. Pretty much any day now. Another 4 months will be a miracle. God forbid a customer come in and see a dead chameleon in the cage.

He is at my house, resting comfortably in a huge arboreal cage, just hanging out, eating crickets and fatty meal worms, and waiting to die.

The moral of the story is you have no idea why the cham looks like it does. It rarely hurts to ask, especially if this is a shop with a good reputation...

Oh and...chameleons won't drink water from a dish. You need to drip it onto their branches and leaves as they are leaf suckers. A dish of water would do nothing for a chameleon except drown it's crickets. The "empty water dish" is probably a meal worm or cricket dish...
 
My local Petco is clean, well run, knowledgeable staff, animals always have nice clean habitats/water dishes.
There is no question that some pet stores are horrible, but that is not a reason to characterize all of them that way.
 
It doesn't matter if you think something will or will not happen to the pet store you should still report them ! If you report them and I report them and bob reports them and suzy reports them eventually the authorities will do something but if everybody walked out of there with a " nothing's going to happen attitude " then guess what ? NOTHINGS GOING TO HAPPEN ! What is 15 minutes of your time worth ? I hope you call and if that doesn't work try contacting some of your local small animal rescues in the area maybe they can do something .Sometimes you have to ring the right bell.
 
Before jumping to conclusions and trying to get a possibly reputable person in trouble, I think Chris has the right idea in finding out the facts of the situation before misconstruing them.
 
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