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My 2 Clutches - lots of genes..

Dale

Dale

Interventions won't work
..but not a whole lot of expression. Below is a side by side of 2 babies representing the 2 pairings from this season. Between the 2 pairings there were many genes at work as well as many possibles, but I am and have always been THE WORST at recognizing subtle visual morphs. Anything at work below besides 2 pretty batches of normals? Only thing not visible is ventral. Left belly is normal checkered and coloring while the right has a split checker pattern and a good influence of the reddish brown color you see in the picture. Also, left has not had first shed, right side has. I'll list the genetics of the pairings in a few.
 

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Looks like an anery (left) and an amel (right) to me, but I'm new to this gig and have been away from the herping scene for a while so I'll leave it to the pros.

The right one I've having a harder time with due to the glare coming off the top part of the body. Most of me wants to say amel though.
 
While both of those genes were present, no, the left is washed out in the pic but actually has vibrant red/orange spots between saddles, and right, while looks to have black reduced, has a normal pupil... hypo?
 
Yeah, the only reason I went anery with the left is mine I just picked up has the same thing going on between saddles roughly through the first five or so.

You thinking left is normal? I do see hues of brown in the saddles now that you mention that.
 
The one on the left looks like a normal baby, in shed. The one on the right looks possibly hypo-ish to me...?

Edit to add: normal babies usually hatch out that dark brown with the orange spots in between the saddles.
 
What were the parents? It looks like you have two normals with the one on the right having a masque influence. If diffused was at play that every well could be. Of course as always only breeding trials will tell you for sure.
 
Does the one on the right have Bloodred/Diffused in the genes? I have seen that split checkered belly on het BR/Diff babies before.
 
Sindrik8x said:
Lesson taught - Newb shouldn't get involved in genetics, haha. Time to start getting learned!
Click to expand...

Hey, we ALL started new.
When I first got into Cornsnakes. I picked up some babies from a friend who took on a lot of snakes from his dad, after he had a stroke. Included where some normal babies. Neither he or I were familiar with them, & we both thought they were really cool "I wonder what they are!"
I posted pics here, to find out that they were "just normals".
 
Sindrik8x said:
Lesson taught - Newb shouldn't get involved in genetics, haha. Time to start getting learned!
Click to expand...

Hey we all have to learn some way and many learned just the way you are by jumping in. You will get they hang of it and sometimes even those with experience get stumped from time to time.
 
<-- Given too much rep in the last 24 hours :D

Thanks Christen. Felt confident at first, then looking back I was like why the heck did I post that?!?!? Haha.

So Amel will always present the red eye and normals can have reddish and/or brownish saddles, correct? Is that based on locality bred into that particular line???
 
Amels will present with red pupils and normals can vary so much. It does depend on local and sometimes hets can even change the appearance of normals. That is why I find normals amazing there is no two that look alike.
 
OK, lets run down the gene list now that I'm home again. On the left we have what appears to be a clutch of normals form a pairing of 2 Coral/Salmon Snows - wait what you say? Well it turns out my male Salmon didn't end up being the dad, and female double clutched from a late 2012 pairing to a het Bloodred/Amel/Anery/Lavender/Strawberry male - female was a Coral Snow from Don S. lines. So unfortunately NOTHING matched up on the roll of genetic dice and I ended up with all normals.

Right side pic came from a Ghosthouse male (Keys het Cinder, and I think ph Hypo) paired with Tom T's Ultra-Lavender-Mot, ph Anery/Cinder. I was toying with trying to prove out her Cinder here... that is the reddish brown clutch with the split checker ventral.

Like I said, lots of genes, few returns...
 
Wow that sucks that she used retained sperm and not the males you hooked her up with.

I have seen many het cinders with split belly patterns. Actually all my het cinders have split bellies. I think this is a case of hets showing through. Actually now that I think about it, my het cinders are redder than classic normals as well. I didn't think much about it but that maybe normal as well.
 
How many eggs did you get from your het cinders? I wouldn't count the het cinder out just yet. Sometimes breeding het to het is a crap shoot. I know I bred het snow to ph het snow and only proved amel with one baby this year out of 12 in the clutch.
 
Christen said:
How many eggs did you get from your het cinders? I wouldn't count the het cinder out just yet. Sometimes breeding het to het is a crap shoot. I know I bred het snow to ph het snow and only proved amel with one baby this year out of 12 in the clutch.
Click to expand...

Oh I never rule it out unless I'm using homo. The het was the best I could do on short notice for the season. It was a very poor clutch though, 20 eggs only 7 made it. Many were under sized and the female had a tough time laying. She was very healthy and definitely old enough / large enough, it was just a tough go. Really wanted to see what some Lav-Cinders would look like, but shes pretty enough on her own as an Ultra Lav. Next time around I may just work her into my Orchid group.
 
Tom Tuttle said:
:awcrap: I was really hoping you produced some cinders from that girl.
Click to expand...

Me too Tom, but with only 7 from the clutch, there's still a shot. Like I said though, she's a looker on her own, so I'll just concentrate on her Lav genes. If I get lucky and find someone with a Lav-Cinder male, we'll see.
 
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