Not posting much ..

[TandJ]

anymore, I have not felt overly close net with a lot of the community lately, although there is a lot of people I truely care about and respect. Its not in my own personal health intrests to allow myself to worked up by some ding a lings useless opinions I have been encountering..

I need time to sit back and reflect on whats the best way operations are going to go here at T and J's.. Despite personal efforts to push further along, I am sad to see that the market has been dumping and been dumped on by many people.. I can't compete with the low qaulity dumping that I have been aware of, nor have I been able to want to be bothered to want to be in the same class as some nortorious breeders who, at best have lacked lustre, lacked honesty and health lacking animals.. Essentially I feel painted into a corner and the enjoyment level of people has greatly been deminished over the last few years.. In short, I need a rest from the BS and propganda of the forums.. I will check in from time to time, but for the last couple of weeks I have not really missed this place and the drama queens ..

 

[wstphal]

I understand about needing to take a break. But I hope you will pop in now & then. I always enjoy your posts.

 

[martin-bernstein]

anymore, I have not felt overly close net with a lot of the community lately, although there is a lot of people I truely care about and respect. Its not in my own personal health intrests to allow myself to worked up by some ding a lings useless opinions I have been encountering..

I need time to sit back and reflect on whats the best way operations are going to go here at T and J's.. Despite personal efforts to push further along, I am sad to see that the market has been dumping and been dumped on by many people.. I can't compete with the low qaulity dumping that I have been aware of, nor have I been able to want to be bothered to want to be in the same class as some nortorious breeders who, at best have lacked lustre, lacked honesty and health lacking animals.. Essentially I feel painted into a corner and the enjoyment level of people has greatly been deminished over the last few years.. In short, I need a rest from the BS and propganda of the forums.. I will check in from time to time, but for the last couple of weeks I have not really missed this place and the drama queens ..

I'm sorry to hear that. I've enjoyed reading your posts and looking at your pics. I'm a pretty new member to the forum I am really enthusiastic about all the great info sharing, photo sharing and debating going on here. Yeah, there are definitely some schmucky comments here and there, and discussions that get overheated, but I feel the good outweighs the bad.

Just out of curiosity, what specifically is the BS and the drama you've encountered here as of late? And what is the propaganda? I'm not challenging your statements and opinions, I'm just curious as to where they stem from.

 

[TandJ]

Just out of curiosity, what specifically is the BS and the drama you've encountered here as of late? And what is the propaganda?

I have been around long enough to see it.. I chat with people on the phone about things they just do not wish to bring up here as they are concenred with thier self image other than the other lack lustre twit making a hustle.. Thats partially the propaganda and BS I see that takes places.. The propaganda well, is very closely related to the above statement.. I have said for the last 3 yrs I am very independant of working with a grip of people for personal reasons, sure all be it I could have some excellent prospects on the next greatest thing, but that is not my objective.. My objective is higher quality animals period.. I am tired and at times tourtured seeing some of the stuff that is mass produced and dumped upon the market place.. I am dismayed at watching the market place tumble while people stil mass produce, where the hell has the responsibility gone?? I suspect it went with the rest of the gene pool down the dumper..

 

[l0ck_0ff]

define mass produce if you would please..?

and may i mention the quote in your sig is wrong its "during times of universal deceit", not in a world.

george orwell is a really good author

All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting. - george orwell

 

[ghosthousecorns]

I've seen the market take a turn but is it really the market or were those snakes overpriced in the first place?
In my case OK for the first time I have produced a higher end morph, cinders. I decided on my price after looking at a couple of other breeders websites. I priced lower, but not by a whole lot.
I don't want to make anyone angry but these are corn snakes. Corn snakes are easy to breed and lay large clutches of eggs. Of course prices are not going to stay high. Anyone can and will breed them. It's frustrating (if this is what you mean by mass produced) that there are so many people out there doing the same thing I love to do.
But to be realistic about it I have no control over what others do and I can understand why they do it, or at least I hope they do it for the same reasons as me. Because it's a fun and rewarding hobby. Not to make money? And if money is their motivation they are never around for long.
Tim, you have experience and a good gene pool on your side. I'm sure your animals are well taken care of and you have satisfied customers from the past to vouch for you.
This is worth gold. I have been surprised and saddened this year by some of the stuff that came to the surface and its made me more careful than ever about who I buy from, and more appreciative of the breeders who have been around and may stay low key or not make a whole lot of posts but there is no questioning the quality of their animals, like you, Tim.

 

[TandJ]

define mass produce if you would please..?

and may i mention the quote in your sig is wrong its "during times of universal deceit", not in a world.

george orwell is a really good author

All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting. - george orwell

bangs head.. Thanks.. Just some more added reassurance..

Jenn mentioned..

But to be realistic about it I have no control over what others do and I can understand why they do it, or at least I hope they do it for the same reasons as me. Because it's a fun and rewarding hobby. Not to make money? And if money is their motivation they are never around for long.
Tim, you have experience and a good gene pool on your side. I'm sure your animals are well taken care of and you have satisfied customers from the past to vouch for you.
This is worth gold. I have been surprised and saddened this year by some of the stuff that came to the surface and its made me more careful than ever about who I buy from, and more appreciative of the breeders who have been around and may stay low key or not make a whole lot of posts but there is no questioning the quality of their animals, like you, Tim.

There is nothing we can do.. I understand that people will try to absolutely selfish to the point it might destroy a hobby.. Hench, corns being the guppies of the snake world.. Whats the point of me even wanting to move ahead, when I can't even ask a fair price, but have to settle for selling around wholesale.. ??? That in it self will finish a lot of the hacks off... I have very little or no respect for people who try to dominate a market by slashing the hell out of their prices just to move them.. There is obviously little or no concern for the rest of the hobbiest/breders out, selfishness destroys the community..


There can be gold to find Jenn, no doubt.. I think you can understand exactly what I mean... What has surfaced this year well, I think it has been vaguely hidden for the last half a decade, I probably would not be suprised by some of the stuff..

 

[MysticExotics]

I do hope that you continue. You have a great reputation, & are a breeder I admire.
I appreciate the time you have taken to discuss topics with me.
Personally, I think the breeders (including yourself) that stick to their guns, keep producing quality snakes, will ultimately survive.
Sure, some are going to go for the slashed price snakes, but there are plenty of people who prefer to get snakes from respected breeders. I myself prefer to stick with well respected breeders. I have dealt with some great breeders, & there's others, such as yourself, that I have on my "someday" list.

 

[martin-bernstein]

What has surfaced this year well, I think it has been vaguely hidden for the last half a decade, I probably would not be suprised by some of the stuff..

Curious again, what surfaced this year?

 

[Nanci]

Well, for one thing, the Bells.

 

[kathylove]

So sorry to hear you might not be around much. Hope you will stick around even if the market stinks lately.

I have also been very disappointed this past year or two because of the marketplace. I never expected to make a fortune, but it was nice when the snakes paid all of their expenses, and there was still a little left over for the mortgage, too!

OTOH, it was nice when hubby was able to sell his images for a decent price, too. But since everyone went digital, and there are jillions of images available for free or very cheap, publishers are choosing mediocre and cheap / free over really nice, but more expensive photos - especially during this recession.

But it is what it is - not only are our corns being cheapened by too much supply. I have tried to cut back more and more, keeping only what I like the best, as well as what sells the best. And we have tried to add other aspects to the business to try to deal with the times. So far, not really successfully, unfortunately. But just keep trying, and don't get too down about it.

The prices I see at shows now must be below the cost of production for many sellers. So they can't last forever. When and if the economy ever improves, there will probably be fewer breeders than there are now. I have seen more adults for sale the last 2 years than ever before. I bet a lot of unemployed hobbyists are trying to partially support themselves on their breeding efforts, too. One of these days, they may be able to find a job, thus having less inclination to overproduce and sell at whatever the market will bear. So eventually supply will hopefully once again match demand.

 

[chris68]

Tim, just find your niche, keep what you like, and don't stress all the bs that actually does come from the hobby as a whole. Step back and just enjoy your snakes for a season, let them rest up a year (or even more) and participate as/where you will, on your terms and yours only. Can't tell you how many times I've just stepped away to get some focus in the 10 years I've been posting online. Don't let the $$$ thoughts get into the way of the enjoyment ones :*) And remember its really always sjut cron sankes

 

[Lucille]

Hope you stick around, maybe just produce less until things get going again,

 

[ghosthousecorns]

yea, that's my plan. Stay in the hobby, but just because I want to see some projects through. Only 3 or 4 clutches a year, just because a female is big enough or ready to breed doesn't mean she has to go with a male. I am lucky I didn't breed that many this year and have sold a few so I just have 15 or so extra mouths to feed. I may miss breeding my ghost stripes and motleys but I have just seen the prices fall so much on those... Seen them priced like normal corns. It's a combo of a glut in the market and people being so broke I think. Hopefully the people who had to slash their prices to get rid of them this year won't go ahead and produce a whole bunch more and do the same thing next year... It's just bad, yikes

 

[Lucille]

but for the last couple of weeks I have not really missed this place and the drama queens ..

One can always go to another thread, help a newbie, or say hello to those one values.

Even if you scale back your biz for a while, it might be good to visit and hang out from time to time, just to see what is going on.

Sometimes, when you are really aggravated, it helps to just stop and think who in this community might need your help, or a kind word from you. If there is a witch in one thread, pass it by and go on to another where you might be able to take part and help, and be part of the community.

 

[TandJ]

Curious again, what surfaced this year?

Some people have noticed things that I was seeing about three or four years ago.. I can't say what, because I will be accussed of sour grapes once again.. Thats not the case, it has been just sitting back..


Will I disappear from the hobby as a whole? Not a chance of that, these have been wonderful creatures to work with, and in some ways theraputic help for the best half..

Kathy mentioned..

The prices I see at shows now must be below the cost of production for many sellers. So they can't last forever. When and if the economy ever improves, there will probably be fewer breeders than there are now. I have seen more adults for sale the last 2 years than ever before. I bet a lot of unemployed hobbyists are trying to partially support themselves on their breeding efforts, too. One of these days, they may be able to find a job, thus having less inclination to overproduce and sell at whatever the market will bear. So eventually supply will hopefully once again match demand.

A person whos opinion I really enjoy hearing.. You have hit some of it directly on the head.. We did four breedings this year... Which was half of what we did the year before, and last year was almost half of what there was the year before.. I can't point fingers, because I feel you are right Kathy.. I will endure but the operations will have to be seriously looked at and more seriously exacting plannings are a must.. Kathy, thank you, I can relate tremendously to what you and Bill have been going through... Arizona any time soon??

Well, for one thing, the Bells.

Huh.. Did I miss something Nanci.???


I might revert to my shell or rock, but that doesn't mean I give up on my hobby..

and Jenn mentioned..

yea, that's my plan. Stay in the hobby, but just because I want to see some projects through. Only 3 or 4 clutches a year, just because a female is big enough or ready to breed doesn't mean she has to go with a male.

Cheers.. Its what I have been realizing.. Sometimes I have done a few breedings in the past to hold a clutch back to make my life easier to get my desired ending.. I remain diligent and focused to some projects, that should have been done by me already, but I remained at the point of no sales or no way to cover costs, there is no way to do justify it then..

 

[kathylove]

Arizona any time soon??

Unfortunately, everything we have worked for since getting married in '79 is tied up in our property and business - and neither is worth much these days. The minute we can sell our place at whatever bottom of the barrel price it will go for, we will be out there. And then we will hopefully buy an equally bottom of the barrel priced, CHEAP little house to live in and save expenses. This recession / depression has not been kind to us in any of our endeavors that have previously supported us - at least above poverty level, anyway. This is a very bad time to be near retirement age, especially as an entrepreneur. There won't be years and years to recover everything lost as there would be if we were significantly younger. But that's the way the cookie crumbles...

So the answer to the question is "who knows? Whenever the house sells!"