Please don't flame me but...

[Kokopelli]

Isn't it at all possible that there's some measure of... erm... impatience for new people here, not as a general rule, but... lately, due to recent events?
I mean...
I will be honest, some two years ago, I too had a "new one" ripped open because I was new and opinionated(I still am though I would like to think I "grew up" a bit)- in fact, I was the subject of a whole new thread of how awful I was and stuff

What makes this community amazing IMHO is the sincere concern people here have for one another and the joined aspiration to learn and grow.

That can only occur if the doors are kept open... and sometimes... young people who join think they already know alot.

I can tell you from personal experience for instance that I consulted with a vet(with over 20 years of experience) and he "taught" me the following "facts":
1- snakes regularly regurgitate, that's how they dispose of bones and fur from their prey
2- one should bathe his snake on a weekly basis in an iodine and water solution
There were a couple more nonsense which I no longer remember... but at the time, I thought he knew what he was talking about.
People back home instead of explaining why the vet was wrong, simply flamed me to hell and back.
I didn't even argue, I said that a certified vet said so and if they can counter it, I would love to hear why, or be given a link with an explanation.

I too know what it means to become... erm... weary, of new people. It's annoying, they sometimes try to help and hand out the worse advice possible. But that's how they can grow... there's no real alternative.

Those of you who are tired of it... maybe you can simply avoid these threads until you feel you want to help without being too... erm, sharp.
It is obvious that you answer in order to help- I have not the slightest doubt and I can only really applaud how much you all care.
But there's no way around it... when something repeats itself... our patience erodes.

Like it or not, new people will be joining... and I think we should remember that is is in our best interest that they do.
One day they may become major breeders, or a customer of some of you...

I have moderated a forum in Israel for around 3 years... and God help me, the people there seem to be... erm, far more insolent than they are here, to say the least.
I know how annoying it can be...

Look, I really like you guys. All of you.
I have 3 amels, that's it. And yet, this is the forum I spend most of my time in even though BCI's are my real interest.
Why? Because of you... all of you. Don't let yourself wear down because of new people... leave them to those who can be bothered, who are less used to the agonizing routine.
In short, reply in threads which don't set off your nerves immediately.

The more I think about this thread, the more I'm scared that it will look like I am criticizing or lecturing.
I am no different, I too am impatient at times. I just don't want to see this truly fantastic community change because of the strain of a few loud new users...

I hope I made sense,

Oren

 

[Michael823]

Great post! I agree with you all the way around. I know most of the people here that have grown to be impatient, most likely deserve to be. But I have seen some threads where someone who simply lacked knowledge was "flamed", and basically told that they shouldn't come to this site with their misinformed ideology. Understandably so, the people here are far too helpful to take criticism and critique from a newbie, but in some situations I think the person could have been taught the right way politely.
I have learned this first hand myself here. On one of my earlier threads, I described a pregnant female that I had cohabbed with a male, and she became pregnant (both adults). Robbie and Starsevol (maybe a couple others) politely warned against it, and suggested separating them. They were very friendly, and provided help rather than judgment. I felt bad for having cohabbed the two, but I lived and learned thanks to some advice. They also gave me lots of advice about pregnant snakes, which was my initial reasoning for the thread, rather than focusing on the cohabbing part.
Then in another thread I saw someone else state that they cohab. The welcoming for him was by different people, and not the friendliest. It became some speech about banning keepers that cohab from keeping snakes. Different people that responded to myself, and maybe the first person casting stones set off a riot, but still not fair to the person who was simply misinformed.

 

[Michael823]

I described a pregnant female that I had cohabbed with a male, and she became pregnant (both adults).

I didn't mean to say I cohabbed a pregnant female with a male, and she became pregnant (again...), oops !

 

[The_Thunderer]

I think its an understandable concern, Oren. I have noted some of what Michael mentioned, but if you look further down, I seem to remember another forum member telling everyone to calm down and offering some constructive advice. Mind you, if the person on the "other end" decides to complain about the advice given... unfortunately, they've made themselves "free game"... to an extent. LOL.

Having been a mod myself, I do know what "forum life" can be like... it always has its ups and downs. But overall, this one has been MUCH more friendly and helpful than any of the other dozen or so that I've been on.

I think even THIS thread is a good reminder of how we should be neighborly.

 

[Lucille]

because of the strain of a few loud new users...

Oren,

I know I'm loud.

I admire you for this post. It comes up on every site, that newbies come in and are not very experienced at either social graces or facts.

One excellent way to handle that is to have a handy FAQ bank and send them there, thereby showing concern and providing answers.

When someone is doing something that is downright dangerous for their critter, I think it is OK to be a little more direct.

And if they go over the line and are not only socially inept but actually behaving like idiots, it is OK to offer a sharp rebuke just like we do with our kids. It's for their own good, and that of the community, that people don't actually run amok.

Oren, by making this post you showed your concern, and that's a good quality of character

 

[dionythicus]

This sentiment rears its head pretty much once a year or so. The people who have been around CS for years get fed up with the noobs coming on spouting all kinds of nonsense and attitude, or the simple, easy to answer questions (when does my snake poop?, etc.) that have been asked a MILLION times and the answers could be found if anyone had the inclination to SEARCH. It gets irritating, some people lose their temper and others try to remain understanding of what it was like to be new to the hobby, but it gets OLD. So you're not stating anything new, or anything that others around here haven't said or felt before. No need to flame you, we've been there.

 

[Lucille]

and the answers could be found if anyone had the inclination to SEARCH.

True, but directing to a FAQ will get the answers to the noob while still welcoming them.
It is true that searches net answers, but some people ask questions just as a way to get welcomed into the fold.

It is worth trying to be patient with newcomers as long as they don't cop attitudes, because the future of reptiles will partly be be determined by the newly interested.

 

[Kokopelli]

Phew, no flames!

Anyways, there IS an FAQ here, I think.
God help me I can't seem to recall -where- it is located.

But it IS present, and quite available... I'm just a forgetful git is all.

Having been through flames both here and back home... (admittedly here I also got a lot of support actually, and was defended)... I just know it's no fun.
Some of these new keepers just need to get a hang on things and it really is just the worse feeling -ever- to be flamed to oblivion and back

 

[tricksterpup]

Phew, no flames!

Anyways, there IS an FAQ here, I think.
God help me I can't seem to recall -where- it is located.

But it IS present, and quite available... I'm just a forgetful git is all.

Having been through flames both here and back home... (admittedly here I also got a lot of support actually, and was defended)... I just know it's no fun.
Some of these new keepers just need to get a hang on things and it really is just the worse feeling -ever- to be flamed to oblivion and back

well if you want flames here you go.

and if you want to be flamed, just stand in front of this.

 

[dionythicus]

I don't think asking "when will my snake poop?" is a good way to break the ice, but that's me. Directing someone to FAQ or posting a link to a thread with the answers is common courtesy, but I for one don't even open those threads. I know it sounds rude and unhelpful, but believe me, I am willing to help when the situation arises. I'm always there for anyone who has what I think is a more pressing problem. I am sympathetic to noobs, heck I was one once, and they need help sometimes. I just don't look at those threads anymore, unless I see that there is a serious issue and then I step in to help. Its all in the noobs' attitudes for me.

 

[Kokopelli]

Oi that reminds me of years past...

That was taken in advance training, heehee, flaassshhhy

 

[tricksterpup]

Oi that reminds me of years past...

That was taken in advance training, heehee, flaassshhhy

See thats how I like it.. some one flaming themselves in their own threads.

 

[starsevol]

Great post! I agree with you all the way around. I know most of the people here that have grown to be impatient, most likely deserve to be. But I have seen some threads where someone who simply lacked knowledge was "flamed", and basically told that they shouldn't come to this site with their misinformed ideology. Understandably so, the people here are far too helpful to take criticism and critique from a newbie, but in some situations I think the person could have been taught the right way politely.
I have learned this first hand myself here. On one of my earlier threads, I described a pregnant female that I had cohabbed with a male, and she became pregnant (both adults). Robbie and Starsevol (maybe a couple others) politely warned against it, and suggested separating them. They were very friendly, and provided help rather than judgment. I felt bad for having cohabbed the two, but I lived and learned thanks to some advice. They also gave me lots of advice about pregnant snakes, which was my initial reasoning for the thread, rather than focusing on the cohabbing part.
Then in another thread I saw someone else state that they cohab. The welcoming for him was by different people, and not the friendliest. It became some speech about banning keepers that cohab from keeping snakes. Different people that responded to myself, and maybe the first person casting stones set off a riot, but still not fair to the person who was simply misinformed.

Wait a sec, wait a sec...I was polite and friendly in a cohabbing thread? Robbie, I can see that, he is a sweetheart, but ME?? Are you SURE?
Co-habbing is one of my all time biggest pet peeves, I think because I indirectly lost one of my favorite snakes due to it. ( I had no choice at the time, but I still blame myself every single day....).
But then, alot of people get their snakes from pet shops..and most pet shops co-hab. And sometimes newbies think that pet shop people are "experts"...and while some pet shop people know what they are talking about....well.....some are downright ignorant when it comes to properly keeping snakes.

 

[ForkedTung]

Oren,

I know I'm loud.

I admire you for this post. It comes up on every site, that newbies come in and are not very experienced at either social graces or facts.

One excellent way to handle that is to have a handy FAQ bank and send them there, thereby showing concern and providing answers.

When someone is doing something that is downright dangerous for their critter, I think it is OK to be a little more direct.

And if they go over the line and are not only socially inept but actually behaving like idiots, it is OK to offer a sharp rebuke just like we do with our kids. It's for their own good, and that of the community, that people don't actually run amok.

Oren, by making this post you showed your concern, and that's a good quality of character

Would you be the same Lucille of Fauna?
I think I received a "a sharp rebuke" from you over there before...and then we worked it out...I think it was over my craigslist thread, remember that?
Heh, heh good post here and welcome to cornsnakes.com!

 

[Criosphynx]

Thats why I'm treading lightly and carrying a big stick.

What tends to happen in forums is old members get to have opinions, and new members don't.

I understand the correction of facts/knowledge, but its the "you don't get to think for yourself noob" mentality that scares most new members away from forums.

 

[Lucille]

Would you be the same Lucille of Fauna?
I think I received a "a sharp rebuke" from you over there before...and then we worked it out...I think it was over my craigslist thread, remember that?
Heh, heh good post here and welcome to cornsnakes.com!

I am one and the same :cheers:
I've taken the time to help a lot of newbies there, and welcome them, I'm not an expert but I know just enough to help point the way.

But yes, along with the gentleness, I can get down if I see the need
Thank you for your welcome.

 

[Michael823]

Wait a sec, wait a sec...I was polite and friendly in a cohabbing thread? Robbie, I can see that, he is a sweetheart, but ME?? Are you SURE?

I'm sure it was you ! You weren't condoning cohabitation, but you were very helpful with advice on what to do with my pregnant snake, and although you may find it a huge pet peeve, were quite helpful and offered sound advice.... at least I think it was you :laugh:.

Point is, I took your advice as helpful, and not as harsh judgment. I think there are many people who can be taught a different way of snake keeping, and it really just takes great advice and understanding.
I was so new to snake keeping when I got my 1st snake, and had many, many questions. I didn't have the internet at that time, so I wasn't as fortunate as some of the newer members that do. Some of them come out of the gate as know it alls, but I think the majority are just misinformed, and this site is the best at informing proper Corn Snake care. There isn't a simple fact sheet given, and then you're sent on your way. It is such a compilation of research, experience, and new developments that makes this such a brilliant place to start your snake keeping experience!

 

[vetusvates]

True, but directing to a FAQ will get the answers to the noob while still welcoming them.
It is true that searches net answers, but some people ask questions just as a way to get welcomed into the fold.

It is worth trying to be patient with newcomers as long as they don't cop attitudes, because the future of reptiles will partly be be determined by the newly interested.

Well said, Lucillle. You velly nice rady.

I'm guilty of ignoring the newcomers with the un-brilliant questions. Or even of a little mischievous harmless teasing. But no mean-ness.

And Oren, you are one of the very nicest guys I know on the planet, even more so to be a soldier in one of the most militarily fragile regions of the world. I can't possibly imagine anyone 'flaming' or bashing you.
That would have to be over my dead body.

 

[Kokopelli]

wow ermmm
I'd settle for "one of the nicest people in my apartment", I live on my own :santa:

Well, you left me speechless. Thank you mate
You know I have only positive things to say about you(and quite a few of them).

Thank you all for being open to receive this opinion rather than deny or argue about it.
Lesser people would have done just that.

Oren

 

[Maize411]

I agree with this thread whole heartedly..I have seen quite a few newbies come in with questions and their threads would become targets of flaming and yelling. One thing we have to remember here is that at one point or another we were all newbies..We all at one point would have believed co-habbing is fine if a pet store worker had told us so. What I'm noticing is that those with very high experience in the field start to forget what it was like to be just coming into the field and so they yell and criticize someone when they simply are asking some facts on husbandry or information on what kind of snake to get.

I have also noticed that this is especially true when the newbie is a minor..It seems they get flammed and yelled at a whole lot more easier and more often then say a 25 year old newbie coming in. I don't understand the reasoning behind this but I will be honest. I haven't really liked what I've been seeing. Minors do tend to be stubborn and think they know it all a good majority of the time, but that does not mean we have to start yelling and flaming them for every question they ask or every post them create. I know from experience that yelling at a minor will not help the situation. My belief is simply if you see a thread from a newbie minor asking questions or stating a fact that he believes to be true..just give your opinion and leave it at that..there is no reason to make it a war on the forum over a simple topic of "Is it okay to feed my snake 3 times a week?"...I know many members here love their animals and when they see topics like that, they immediately think of the poor animal suffering. I 100% agree with you and don't blame you for wanting to keep the pet safe, but you have to remember one thing. This is not your pet, the snake in question of the topic belongs to the poster and thus means he can care for it the way he sees fit. Granted now, this is in no way an excuse to get away with hurting an animal..but when it comes to ideas of husbandry and care..We are all entitled to our own opinions..Even if those opinions are not agreed upon by everyone.

I also have noticed that many older members here lately have started to become very strongly opinionated..Not backing down from an argument and fueling the fire of it to keep it going. Now I have my opinions just like everyone else..but I will not spend days and days in a thread stating I am right and you all are wrong and blah blah blah...Because of this, many threads have become annoying to go to and has also made me nervous to post an opinion in worry that someone will counter it and a whole bunch of crap will start..Even this post right now concerns me but I'm not too worried as I know I'm staying in the guidelines of what to put and am not targeting anyone in specific..

I'm just putting this out as a reminder to all of us..We are here because we all share one passion..and that is corns and other snakes and reptiles and the desire to communicate and talk with people who share these interests. Newbies that come in are seeking advice and help..and even though they may ask questions they could have easily found on the F&Q board..doesn't mean we shouldn't help them if they need it...adults and minors alike...