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Poisonous bites

sfaoldguy said:
And yes, I know I said poisonous... Venom is a poison so anything that is venomous is also poisonous... Some of you need to get over yourselves and just answer the questions instead of trying to make yourselves look so smart... I loved it every time my zoology professor last semester referred to snakes as being poisonous in one sentence and venomous in the next... He would use the terms interchangeably... Many books do the same... He has 43 years experience as a professor at the university and no telling the experience of those who write the books... But I guess we all know more than they do, don't we???
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A lot of venom in that remark. Or is it poison :grin01:

Just a pet peeve of mine. Poisonous, by definition, is full of poison. There are no snakes that are full of poison. You could eat a snake if you wanted.

Would you call a Poison Dart Frog venomous?

I don't think that I am trying to prove that I am smart, it's just that by definition, these words are not interchangeable.
 
sfaoldguy said:
And yes, I know I said poisonous... Venom is a poison so anything that is venomous is also poisonous... Some of you need to get over yourselves and just answer the questions instead of trying to make yourselves look so smart... I loved it every time my zoology professor last semester referred to snakes as being poisonous in one sentence and venomous in the next... He would use the terms interchangeably... Many books do the same... He has 43 years experience as a professor at the university and no telling the experience of those who write the books... But I guess we all know more than they do, don't we???
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No, we don't all know more than they do, but some of us are more precise in our language use than others, and some of us value precision in language use highly. I know plenty of similar professors who are also quite precise in their language use. I have a genetics prof. who knows quite a lot, worked on big important projects like the Neandertal and Kennewick man DNA analyses, and if she is within earshot and you say, "The data is . . ." she will interrupt you no matter who you're talking to and no matter what she's having another conversation about and remind you that "the data are . . ." People who know a lot come in stripes are more particular and less particular, just the same as people who don't know a lot. And being particular is not the same as being condescending. The two can co-occur, but are not necessarily linked.
 
lefty_mussolini said:
A lot of venom in that remark. Or is it poison :grin01:

Just a pet peeve of mine. Poisonous, by definition, is full of poison. There are no snakes that are full of poison. You could eat a snake if you wanted.

Would you call a Poison Dart Frog venomous?

I don't think that I am trying to prove that I am smart, it's just that by definition, these words are not interchangeable.
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Maybe you need to broaden your definition of poison or look into some other sources to find other meanings for the term... Here is are a couple cut and pastes from a couple of dictionaries. Haven't found your definition yet, but it does sound like it may be one of the uses of the term.

Wordweb definition of poisonous
Poisonous:
1. Having the qualities or effects of a poison
2. Not safe to eat
3. Marked by deep ill will; deliberately harmful

Encarta Dictionary definition of poisonous
1. containing or producing poison: containing, producing, or acting as a poison
2. malicious: filled with or creating malice, distrust, or hostility

Wordweb definition of poison
1. Any substance that causes injury or illness or death of a living organism
2. Anything that harms or destroys
 
desertanimal said:
No, we don't all know more than they do, but some of us are more precise in our language use than others, and some of us value precision in language use highly. I know plenty of similar professors who are also quite precise in their language use. I have a genetics prof. who knows quite a lot, worked on big important projects like the Neandertal and Kennewick man DNA analyses, and if she is within earshot and you say, "The data is . . ." she will interrupt you no matter who you're talking to and no matter what she's having another conversation about and remind you that "the data are . . ." People who know a lot come in stripes are more particular and less particular, just the same as people who don't know a lot. And being particular is not the same as being condescending. The two can co-occur, but are not necessarily linked.
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Now, don't get me wrong. I do appreciate precision in communication. The specific example you gave is not one that I agree with though. It's like she is saying that it isn't alright for you to violate rules of grammar, but it is ok for her to violate rules of social behavior in being rude and interrupting.
 
I see your point. In this particular case, I didn't take Trevor as being rude or condescending, just giving a little good-natured ribbing for being imprecise. And you did imply that he thought himself above those who aren't as precise (or at least that's what I inferred from your comments), which is why I came to his defense.

I agree, though, there are limits, and my professor oversteps them. But, she's the prof. and I'm the graduate student, so I don't question it. Plus, I don't make that error so I don't get nailed on it. But I do feel a bit sorry for those who do, and when I am a prof., I will try to be socially appropriate and only correct my own grad. students when they are among friends . . .
 
desertanimal said:
I see your point. In this particular case, I didn't take Trevor as being rude or condescending, just giving a little good-natured ribbing for being imprecise. And you did imply that he thought himself above those who aren't as precise (or at least that's what I inferred from your comments), which is why I came to his defense.

I agree, though, there are limits, and my professor oversteps them. But, she's the prof. and I'm the graduate student, so I don't question it. Plus, I don't make that error so I don't get nailed on it. But I do feel a bit sorry for those who do, and when I am a prof., I will try to be socially appropriate and only correct my own grad. students when they are among friends . . .
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I feel the same way. My ultimate goal is to be a professor myself after a number of years in the field. I will correct my students in private. If they keep it up, I will do it in public to help get the point across. lol

If the original poster was one of my students, I would ask them to use the term venomous because it is more specific. Technically, to call a snake poisonous is not incorrect but it isn't the most accepted term.

If he was just joking around about it, I apologize. My hope is that we can relax and let people feel free to communicate on these forums without the fear that they are going to be corrected every time they turn around.
 
So, when a Hognose bites a human hand, does it hold on? Im thinking of getting a hognose, but I dont need anything that is going to try and eat my hand off. :)

Also, how do you put pictures under the member name?


:) :flames:
 
Yep. It was all in good fun. I'm rarely serious too serious. And that is the problem with typing rather than talking. No one can hear the playful nature of the statement being made. I should have used a smiley. :)
sfaoldguy said:
If he was just joking around about it, I apologize. My hope is that we can relax and let people feel free to communicate on these forums without the fear that they are going to be corrected every time they turn around.
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Understood and agreed :cheers:
Stock350 said:
So, when a Hognose bites a human hand, does it hold on? Im thinking of getting a hognose, but I dont need anything that is going to try and eat my hand off.
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Hognose Snakes (I'm only speaking with experience with the Westerns) tend to be very docile and generally won't bite. They will bluff quite a bit, and usually strike you with a closed mouth, but usually no bites. Unfortunately, when bites do occur, it's usually during a feeding response, and in that case, they do hang on. But it takes them a little while to actually chew in the venom, especially if it is a younger/smaller snake.
 
This is the webpage that made me take hoggie bites seriously. No more "Oh, it's just like a bee sting" for me!!

Now when my snake bites, I detach him rather rapidly. And I would say he always bites in hopes that I am food- it certainly isn't malicious.

Nanci

http://herpnet.net/bite/

PS- my biter is a tri-color- not a Western. And my Eastern would _never_ bite. She's the most timid snake ever.
 
The Eastern Hog-nosed snake (Heterodon platirhinos) is sometimes mistaken for a cobra because when it is threatened it rears back and flattens its neck out. It may strike out if harassed but rarely bites, and it is non-venomous.
 
I've actually been researching the Eastern Hog Nosed a bit, and here is another piece of an article I found: This docile snake is also identifiable by its tendency to inflate its head and neck, coil, hiss and strike when initially disturbed. It does not bite, however, and if this display does not scare away the predator, the snake will writhe and feign death.
I met someone during a camping trip this past summer, and she would go and pick up these snakes if someone called to say there was one on their property and they were scared of it. This woman said that the snake at first would puff up like a cobra and head butt her leg a few times, if she didn't go away, the next thing it would do would be to throw up....still not leaving, o.k. the next thing is to poo....hmm..still here?.....it would play dead...I would love to see that show! LOL!!! Funny little guys, aren't they? Has anyone else ever seen one act like that?
 
Nanci said:
This is the webpage that made me take hoggie bites seriously. No more "Oh, it's just like a bee sting" for me!!

Now when my snake bites, I detach him rather rapidly. And I would say he always bites in hopes that I am food- it certainly isn't malicious.

Nanci

http://herpnet.net/bite/

PS- my biter is a tri-color- not a Western. And my Eastern would _never_ bite. She's the most timid snake ever.
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Ahh, that's disgusting, but then again who'd let it suck on your hand for 10 minutes :shrugs: :eek1: :puke01:
 
This may or may not correspond to the currently accepted conventions of American herpetologists and biologists, but the English professor feels compelled to chime in and amplify the pedantry. According to our friends at the Oxford English Dictionary (2nd ed.), venomous and poisonous are about as synonymous as two words can be:

Venomous:
"Containing, consisting or full of, infected with, venom; possessing poisonous properties or qualities; destructive of, harmful or injurious to, life on this account" (2).

"Of animals, esp. snakes, or their parts: Secreting venom; having the power or property of communicating venom by means of bites or stings; inflicting or capable of inflicting poisonous wounds in this way. Formerly in general literary use, now chiefly restricted to certain species of poisonous snakes" (3).

Poisonous:
"Containing, or of the nature of, poison; having the properties of a poison; venomous" (1).

Venom:
"The poisonous fluid normally secreted by certain snakes and other animals and used by them in attacking other living creatures. The venom of snakes is secreted in a poison gland communicating with the fangs, through which it is ejected in the act of striking" (1).

The etymology of the English word "venomous" is the Old French "venin," which also exists in the fourteenth century as an English word, defined by the OED as: "Venom, poison." Venin comes from the Latin venenum, -i, which the Oxford Latin Dictionary defines as "A poison" (2); "the use of poison, poisoning" (2b).
 
sfaoldguy said:
Had to look that one up. It is officially my all time favorite word now. I just hope that I can use it as eloquently as you do.
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It's honestly better not to use it at all--except ironically, or humorously. Most people don't like to be treated pedantically--as this thread seems to suggest.
 
Snakespeare said:
It's honestly better not to use it at all--except ironically, or humorously. Most people don't like to be treated pedantically--as this thread seems to suggest.
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pedantry
1. An ostentatious and inappropriate display of learning

You are absolutely right. But when someone is being pedantical, now I have the word to call it what it is. LOL.
 
To be pedantic (meta-pedantic?), I think "pedantic" is the preferred adjectival form in modern American usage, and "pedantically" the preferred adverb (rather than "pedantical").

Sorry--I couldn't resist.

Apologies for hijacking the thread. Snakes in a library?
 
Snakespeare said:
To be pedantic (meta-pedantic?), I think "pedantic" is the preferred adjectival form in modern American usage, and "pedantically" the preferred adverb (rather than "pedantical").

Sorry--I couldn't resist.

Apologies for hijacking the thread. Snakes in a library?
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LMAO! I was wondering if you were gonna post something to that effect. I truely appreciate the correction on this one. I laughed at myself as I took the liberty and butchered the word with my back woods modification.
 
When I was little, we went somewhere warm (yeah, I don't remember, I was really little) for Christmas. Apparently, during an unsupervised moment, I decided to poke the "giant blue bubble with legs." Let's just say that the "bubble" didn't appreciate it, and I ended up in the hospital.
 
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