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The missing test for BUF done !!!!

I am confused. You got Buf babies from a Buf to Caramel breeding? Was the Caramel het buf? Or is Buf a dominant trait?

Sorry if this has all been answered, I am just very confused about the Buf gene, though I have seen pictures and they are very pretty snakes.
 
The pics are coming soon.
The discussion is now going from i think 2006, several breeders and other people are saying buf is nothing els then a hetero expression from caramel.
And i must breed buf to caramel, in my experience it was'nt.But to satisfied some people i did that in 2009 with butter and golddust, but this was not good according to some people.( This breedings are homo caramel )No it must been a caramel so i did this in 2011, a had it done in 2010 but the lady was not big enough, and i got no eggs that year.But in 2010 i bred a orange again to the butter.And in the years 2009 and 2010, the outcome was always the same, normal-buf-amel-orange.And now in 2011 i bred a buf het amel-lavender-anery x caramel het amel-bloodred-motley-hypo together and the outcome is normal- buf - amel- orange.No butter or caramel, so i hope this is done.I think to breed caramel into buf was wrong, because buf is a caramel look a like, and how to hold things apart when it look like, if you now what i mean.Now in the Toffee discussion , and that coming out of a caramel line, i hear nothing about this. I said years ago the caramel they described are no caramel and now they say it self.And in my opinion BUf and Toffee are the same, we breed this in about 200 km from each other, it look the same, its dominant ( how many gene are dominant), the only thing is they bred there line into other line than i did.Example : they bred Toffee into bloodred, i didn,t and thats the reason the penotypes are sometimes not the same.This year a thorsten bred for the first time that toffee line to a wildtype animal, and got the same results as i bred in 2007 i belief, and now the now for 99% thats is dominant they give it a new name, i was agains that, but who is Jan !I discussed BUF for more that10 years now, and they made me sound like a fool a donkey ect ect, so it doesn't mather to me anymore, i do my thing in the way i think its best.Maybe i did not the things they asked here in that time that was asking , but don't forget i was alone.There was one person wo got buf and orange years ago, and he bred it back, but he didn't say anything about that here, just that he was selling a bunch of them to america.And i think a made a red carpet for Toffee.
I now from 2006 that i had something new, and at that time i now it was dominant, and after that i split the line in 4 different lines, first for the bloodline and second to see what happens in other colours, and i have my results.Don't forget i am a hobby breeder, and like to play with colours, not for the money but for the cick.Every year its like easter what is coming out of the eggs, and i do this now for more than 30 years first with parakeets now with snakes.And i do now genetics !!!!!:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:
 
I know the hole story jan ;) i would like to see pics of the outcome from this year breeding buf het.. X caramel het ...

to help you out to not let people start discusions lets see:

1) the hole clutch together
3) individual pic of each
3) compareson pic buf and normal next to each other
4) compareson pic orange and amel next to each other

And try to get the best quality in color as you can ;)

and to the toffee thing...
you know what to do to stop this delemma of not knowing if its the same or not. Testbreeding next year and your done :)


roman
 
Outcast said:
I am confused. You got Buf babies from a Buf to Caramel breeding? Was the Caramel het buf? Or is Buf a dominant trait?

Sorry if this has all been answered, I am just very confused about the Buf gene, though I have seen pictures and they are very pretty snakes.
Click to expand...

Buf is dominant, i say a single dominant mutation.
But what we now from the pytons /boas we must cal it a hetero dominant mutation.( just to make it more difficult to understand )
So lets help, we now that a snake has two alleles a wildtype has two normal ones, let say nn.
A buf has also two a B for the dominant BUF and the n for the normal Bn.
Lets play
We put a caramel to a Buf
Caramel has also two alleles caca, but to put it in a punnet sqaure we put nn also in the caca so it wil be nncaca.( you can put also nn to Bn but for the results it has no affec )

Buf = Bn
Caramel = nncaca

Split the genes
B----/----n
nca----/----nca

........B.......n
nca...Bnca..nnca
nca...Bnca..nnca

Now we have Bnca Buf het caramel and nnca normal het caramel

when bred buf x buf

................B...........n
B.............BB..........Bn
n.............Bn..........nn

now we got Bn--BB-nn
Bn is buf in the hetero expresion
BB is buf in the homo expression
nn is normal

In buf there is no appaerence in Bn or BB, not a big so far, but in mix with other genes example hypo, there is a big difference.
This year i got a proven BB a orange from 2006 never bred with her until now,and i now i must have one !!!!
And i got results with hypo in the mix with buf from 2010 a hypobuf bnhh, and i think i have a BBhh i cal him or here BUFFY.

Greatings

Jan
 
Caramel said:
I know the hole story jan ;) i would like to see pics of the outcome from this year breeding buf het.. X caramel het ...

to help you out to not let people start discusions lets see:

1) the hole clutch together
3) individual pic of each
3) compareson pic buf and normal next to each other
4) compareson pic orange and amel next to each other

And try to get the best quality in color as you can ;)

and to the toffee thing...
you know what to do to stop this delemma of not knowing if its the same or not. Testbreeding next year and your done :)


roman
Click to expand...
You wil see the same, as i see for more than 6 years, and thoose pics are on my site.So what wil change.:shrugs:
To take buf again in discussion ???????? There was no caramel ore butter outcome in this breeding and not in the previous breeding done with Butter twice and Golddust.

And to the toffee thing i put two male in the line to do that, but i have heard nothing from the people with Toffee.

Why asking me that question and not the Toffee people if you now what i mean.

And i think you now that i follow Toffee, and the only thing is "we proved"
( nothings is proved, only one breeding from Thorsten, and the rest is breeding to get a bunch of toffee's.I saw yesterday one the german forum pics with names for instance a pic from a Bloodredbutter called anery auratum blood.A bloodred called Toffeeblood and then the thing caramel and toffee they not nowing what they have is it a caramel ore a toffee ect ect )

Don't get me wrong its not agains you, but a litle iritated prove this prove that, do this and do that.I put the hole story together in a book and that you can find one my site www.slangenbroed.nl pics and results from 10 years
when is the toffee book finisched?????????

Greatings

Jan
 
Glad to hear that you proved it against what everyone was trying to get you to do.. If only to get them off your back. Congrats on it!
 
slangenbroed said:
And to the toffee thing i put two male in the line to do that, but i have heard nothing from the people with Toffee.

Why asking me that question and not the Toffee people if you now what i mean.
Click to expand...

are you drunk?!

I believe the so called Toffee people are not interested in your buf stuff because you ask around 500$ for one single male. no more, no less. They asked you several times for animals for testbreedings. YOU're the one with the communication problem, we all tried to discuss and explain things several times to you but meanwhile I think you don't want to understand. It's a colossal cheek and you wonder why everyone is hacked off about you. At this point I'll stop the dialogue because its truley a waste of time.
 
JimGERcream said:
are you drunk?!

I believe the so called Toffee people are not interested in your buf stuff because you ask around 500$ for one single male. no more, no less. They asked you several times for animals for testbreedings. YOU're the one with the communication problem, we all tried to discuss and explain things several times to you but meanwhile I think you don't want to understand. It's a colossal cheek and you wonder why everyone is hacked off about you. At this point I'll stop the dialogue because its truley a waste of time.
Click to expand...

Maybee you looked to deep in the botle !:crazy01::crazy01:
Several times in the geman forum i offer two males BUf het amel for testbreeding, but i want to now, who is testing ,what he or she is planning to do ,ect ect, play a open game.And not allone in the german forum , here in the c.....c.......c. The fobidden name here a said that to.
http://www.farbvarianten.de/viewtopic.php?t=833&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=105
And second i never and i say it twice NEVER ask one dollar or euro for them, and i never did it before not to marc vervest, chales pritzel,cornsnake deluxe to nobody.So don't put me here as the person who want to made money out off this.And nowone ask me for animals to make a testbreeding.
There was one guy wo want to exchange some animals, and witout money, but the distance was his problem and second, my male went sick, and i don't exchange animals that not 100% fit.
The second guy was thorsten and he want a animal for breeding in his own stock, and that was before we had it about a testbreeding.And this guy ask me what i will charge for a animal , and he got tha price.And i asked 350 euro for a male i belief, but that was to expensive for him.
Here the mail.
Hi Jan!

Du müsstest mich aus dem FV-Forum kennen.

Ich beschäftige mich momentan sehr mit "Auratum" und hätte grosses Interesse an einem Orange-Weibchen.

Hast Du dieses Jahr ein Tier abzugeben? Je älter desto besser, aber ich wäre auch mit einer NZ11 zufrieden.

Grüsse nach NL

Thorsten

Hi Jan!

Super. Würdest Du davon ein Weibchen abgeben? Und welche Preisvorstellung hast Du?

Grüsse
THorsten

I think you are the person who make the name toffee and not waiting another year, and you don't want that this coopererate wil work.
And if its not ,give me names who want to play this game open for testbreeding i ask before!!!!!!!
And don't put me in this light, where you want me to put in.:fullauto:

Greating / GRusse

Jan
 
slangenbroed said:
Maybee you looked to deep in the botle !:crazy01::crazy01:
Several times in the geman forum i offer two males BUf het amel for testbreeding, but i want to now, who is testing ,what he or she is planning to do ,ect ect, play a open game.And not allone in the german forum , here in the c.....c.......c. The fobidden name here a said that to.
http://www.farbvarianten.de/viewtopic.php?t=833&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=105
And second i never and i say it twice NEVER ask one dollar or euro for them, and i never did it before not to marc vervest, chales pritzel,cornsnake deluxe to nobody.So don't put me here as the person who want to made money out off this.And nowone ask me for animals to make a testbreeding.
There was one guy wo want to exchange some animals, and witout money, but the distance was his problem and second, my male went sick, and i don't exchange animals that not 100% fit.
The second guy was thorsten and he want a animal for breeding in his own stock, and that was before we had it about a testbreeding.And this guy ask me what i will charge for a animal , and he got tha price.And i asked 350 euro for a male i belief, but that was to expensive for him.
Here the mail.
Hi Jan!

Du müsstest mich aus dem FV-Forum kennen.

Ich beschäftige mich momentan sehr mit "Auratum" und hätte grosses Interesse an einem Orange-Weibchen.

Hast Du dieses Jahr ein Tier abzugeben? Je älter desto besser, aber ich wäre auch mit einer NZ11 zufrieden.

Grüsse nach NL

Thorsten

Hi Jan!

Super. Würdest Du davon ein Weibchen abgeben? Und welche Preisvorstellung hast Du?

Grüsse
THorsten

I think you are the person who make the name toffee and not waiting another year, and you don't want that this coopererate wil work.
And if its not ,give me names who want to play this game open for testbreeding i ask before!!!!!!!
And don't put me in this light, where you want me to put in.:fullauto:

Greating / GRusse

Jan
Click to expand...
For your info the mail is from 24 mai 2011 and my offering in the forum from 23 june 2011.
 
are you sure you should show his email in this forum?
jim even has no toffees in his stock...lol...
 
Hi!

I'm Thorsten. :)

Jan, at first you cannot post private emailing in a public forum. That is bad behaviour!

Second: You did not copy the whole corresponding with me. I offered you toffee animals for testbreeding. Your answer was: No interest 'cause Toffee has nothing to do with Buf.

This was your opinion!

Third: You offered me adult breeders for 450€! That's about 634$! This emailanswer you didn't quote!

Fourth: I don't think that you have a serious interest to compare both variants. So forget about it.

You breed Buf, we breed Toffee and everything will be ok.

This is my one and only statement to this topic.
 
ThorstenG said:
Hi!

I'm Thorsten. :)

Jan, at first you cannot post private emailing in a public forum. That is bad behaviour! I can post whatever i want, its about the true!!!!!!!!

Second: You did not copy the whole corresponding with me. I offered you toffee animals for testbreeding. Your answer was: First you ask me a buf or orange from 2011 to bred into your , and you offer me some off that results.No interest 'cause Toffee has nothing to do with Buf.

This was your opinion!

Third: You offered me adult breeders for 450€! That's about 634$! This emailanswer you didn't quote! OK does it mather 350 - 450 i sad if iám correct i beleef.You wanted a animal orange , and not for breeding into the auaratum/toffee thing but to have my stock besides that line, and when i lie about this i wil give you that mail to.( watch it )

Fourth: I don't think that you have a serious interest to compare both variants. So forget about it.
I think your in germany don't want it, that was also the reason to give it a name, i was open from the beginning, and put some anymals for free for the testbreeding, your site didn't:poke:
You breed Buf, we breed Toffee and everything will be ok.

This is my one and only statement to this topic.
Click to expand...
This is my site of the story, blow it up , make me a fool or a lyer .
And now iam going home
cheers until tomorrow

Jan
 
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