Ultras and ultramel aneries

[TandJ]

Throwen in with everything else...

 

[Susan]

Gotta love a clutch with some variety! Congrats!

 

[TandJ]

Those were last years Susan... The same thing happened with these ae the a lot of the clutches from last year, I kept the best and fed off the rest, no intrest from anyone, what am I supposed to do?

 

[Susan]

You do what you feel you have to. There is nothing wrong with keeping the cream of the crop and doing what is necessary with the remainder. I'm not sure what I'll do with hatchlings that don't sell this year. I would love to be able to get a table at Daytona, but most likely, it will be just me and I'm not that crazy as to vend at Daytona with only one person working the table! I don't have any kings anymore so I will either have to keep them forever, give them away, sell to a wholesaler or let nature deal with them.

 

[TandJ]

so I will either have to keep them forever, give them away, sell to a wholesaler or let nature deal with them.

Well when we have people willing to pull animals from out of state to full fill their whole sale orders, whats the point of wholesaling against under handed people? Just to get the rock bottom prices? Essentially I am just letting nature deal them their hand, if the specimins are the best of the group, they are likely staying, if not, C'est La Vie..

 

[DanaP]

I really like the ultramel aneries

 

[solo1979]

That's sad even though it's nature. I think everyone out there thinking of breeding with absolutely no idea what they are doing or why they are doing it should be forced to read this thread. It's a reminder of how flooded the market currently is. If I had the room, I'd be asking you to send all the unwanted babies to me.

 

[corngurl2011]

This thread makes me sad. If I was in my own place and had some more tanks I would say send them to me as well. But not having my own place kinda sucks. But ill have a place soon then ill be goin to school and I'll probably get a few more tanks. Ild love to have another corn or corns. But the timing is wrong and ild really love to help. Is there anything I could do??

 

[jessicalb]

When you guys say you let nature deal with them, what does that mean? You release them into the wild? Sorry if this was stated somewhere and I missed it...

 

[solo1979]

It means that baby corn snakes are considered prey animals and the ones that cannot be homed are treated as such, prey for other animals such as kingsnakes. It's sad to us because we love corns, but it's nature. I'm the same way with rabbits. Because I had them as pets when I was younger, I could never bring myself to own something that needed to eat rabbits.

 

[SnakeAround]

That's sad even though it's nature. I think everyone out there thinking of breeding with absolutely no idea what they are doing or why they are doing it should be forced to read this thread. It's a reminder of how flooded the market currently is. If I had the room, I'd be asking you to send all the unwanted babies to me.

So, what would tell this thread to the breeders without any idea? 'Hey, even if you can't sell or rehome them, there is a way out.'

Maybe, just maybe, even breeders 'who know what they are doing and why they are doing it', should not have so many projects that they have to cull bay's that don't sell.... It seems like running the projects has more priority then giving the market a rest in a more humane way. It's quite predictable you know, what comes out of these breedings.... Probably stirring in a beaten to dead issue over here but I needed to write down this little rant after reading this. I would have liked to produce 10 clutches this year project wise but cut down to 6 and even canceled one because I know the market is flooded and I can't keep too many for too long. Guess what? I have managed to actually sell all baby's I have had (not even medium end most of them) before the next season's clutches hatched. I would never be able to breed all the projects I like and cull left overs, not even in a 'natural' way just because they are left over. Especially not if I had been 'forced' to do so the year before too.

Maybe, we as a community need to accept that we need to slow things down a bit... I read in a Tessera debate thread started last year that 'all it takes to produce a whole bunch of them is a yearling male and any female'. What if we would not try to be the first but the most responsible?

 

[TandJ]

Well no one has been willing to take the serious hard stand.. I don't get any enjoyment out what seems twisted, so this year, we had one breeding.. I could have easily done 30 to 40 breedings I am sure, but there is no point.. Don't think I am being cruel, although its not a nice thing to do, I have a love for nature and animals alike, and niethier should have to suffer.. The point being, is that if your going to breed, there should be a humane and reasonable out let. If thats not there, whats the point of breeding unwanted animals? None what so ever..

Maybe, just maybe, even breeders 'who know what they are doing and why they are doing it', should not have so many projects that they have to cull bay's that don't sell.... It seems like running the projects has more priority then giving the market a rest in a more humane way. It's quite predictable you know, what comes out of these breedings.... Probably stirring in a beaten to dead issue over here but I needed to write down this little rant after reading this. I would have liked to produce 10 clutches this year project wise but cut down to 6 and even canceled one because I know the market is flooded and I can't keep too many for too long. Guess what? I have managed to actually sell all baby's I have had (not even medium end most of them) before the next season's clutches hatched. I would never be able to breed all the projects I like and cull left overs, not even in a 'natural' way just because they are left over. Especially not if I had been 'forced' to do so the year before too.

You Love, have hit the nail squarely and cleanly on the head, renforcing my point.. The signs are there, bigger breeders getting out, why? Because they are smart, they started at the bottom and worked their way up top, and they can see the bottom has fallen out.. Your best not to count your money at the table, just grab your stack and run..

I would love to say in the almost decade we have had the animals, I never made a dime, I am never going to break even, but I can tell you, my work, time and effort, pays off when I finally produce my target, even though others may have beaten me there by a century.. I care sincerely about the animals, so please do not be judgemental on what I feel was the right thing to do, it was a choice and it was not an easy choice..

 

[jessicalb]

It means that baby corn snakes are considered prey animals and the ones that cannot be homed are treated as such, prey for other animals such as kingsnakes. It's sad to us because we love corns, but it's nature. I'm the same way with rabbits. Because I had them as pets when I was younger, I could never bring myself to own something that needed to eat rabbits.

Thanks for the clarification. It is sad but actually that was one thing I had been thinking. That if I wanted to breed, I don't see myself culling normals or 'boring' slow moving morphs, but something that doesn't look like it will survive long or even something like a stargazer that might survive but isn't a good idea to sell off because people might breed it and pass on the gene, I would feel better about having a king around to eat those rather than just throwing them away.

I don't object to culling at all, as long as it is humane.

 

[solo1979]

My point was that maybe reading the hard fact that a lot of these babies end up having to be culled would make people think twice about breeding.

I respect breeders fully but don't get the mentality of why so many people feel they need to have projects going in the first place. It's not everyone's destiny to be a Kathy Love, Rich, Abbott, etc. These people are pioneers. I am not a snake person. I've only had corns 3 months. But I am a dog person. A pitbull person to be exact and I have dabbled in rescue over the years. The abundance of cornsnake breeders reminds me very much of the backyard breeders in the pitbull world. You get two blue pitbulls, which is a recessive trait anyway and prone to health issues, and you breed 'em because you heard blue puppies could make you a lot of money. The end result, probably more than half that litter you produce is euthanised for health issues, temperament, no longer wanted before reaching their max lifespan. How is this any different?

So, what would tell this thread to the breeders without any idea? 'Hey, even if you can't sell or rehome them, there is a way out.'

Maybe, just maybe, even breeders 'who know what they are doing and why they are doing it', should not have so many projects that they have to cull bay's that don't sell.... It seems like running the projects has more priority then giving the market a rest in a more humane way. It's quite predictable you know, what comes out of these breedings.... Probably stirring in a beaten to dead issue over here but I needed to write down this little rant after reading this. I would have liked to produce 10 clutches this year project wise but cut down to 6 and even canceled one because I know the market is flooded and I can't keep too many for too long. Guess what? I have managed to actually sell all baby's I have had (not even medium end most of them) before the next season's clutches hatched. I would never be able to breed all the projects I like and cull left overs, not even in a 'natural' way just because they are left over. Especially not if I had been 'forced' to do so the year before too.

Maybe, we as a community need to accept that we need to slow things down a bit... I read in a Tessera debate thread started last year that 'all it takes to produce a whole bunch of them is a yearling male and any female'. What if we would not try to be the first but the most responsible?

 

[Susan]

Why do I have so many projects going on? Because working towards the end result is what I enjoy most out of the hobby...beside taking photos of them. Yeah, I could wait for another breeder to produce them, then wait more time for their price to drop to what I can afford at a single time, but then I would lose the enjoyment of working towards that goal, the sheer joy of opening the lid to see that end product sitting there, freshly hatched, and doing the cobra dance at you.

 

[SnakeAround]

That's what i like about it too! Being the first is less important, so i won't produce more then i can handle without culling left overs. I prefer postponing my project then.

@tandj: good to read you took responsibility this year, sorry for being judgemental, that was caused by the sheer idea of the culling. Yuo probably hate it just as much as i do. But it reminded me also of a thread a couple of years ago where people defended breeding despite knowing you would have to cull some.

 

[solo1979]

Susan it wasn't a direct blow towards you or any of the other responsible breeders here. I feel that not everyone who gets their hands on a couple of corns should be looking at breeding them. And that's the reason why I thought maybe a thread like this could help them see that there are more than enough breeders in the market already and even some of you guys have a hard time selling all of the babies. Hope it didn't seem like I was trying to be offensive.

 

[chris68]

I think with a lot of folks getting out it opens up the door for "niche" breeders, focusing on one maybe two projects and "tweaking" them to make them the best examples of that morph possible...I have Tequila Sunrises and Locality Okeetee's, with a goal of A: producing as pink a snake as possible with the TS's and B: adding Tessera to my Okeetee line...It's easier to focus when you don't have a lot to think about; it's easier to market them also

 

[Katrina DLB]

Well, this has definitely been a good reality check for me, at least - thank you all, I think these "harsh realities" should be pounded into newbies more, not to make us feel bad of course, but hopefully to make more think a little harder about breeding, whether they really should, considering this culling that I honestly was ignorant to before reading this thread. I really do feel bad for all you wonderful breeders, with how saturated the market is right now, and this culling that I'm sure none of you find easy to say the least..I really don't think I could do it, to be perfectly honest with myself - which is exactly why I have something to really think about from this thread! Thank you, and I have nothing but admiration and respect for you breeders who persevere for the love of corns.

 

[solo1979]

Well, this has definitely been a good reality check for me, at least - thank you all, I think these "harsh realities" should be pounded into newbies more, not to make us feel bad of course, but hopefully to make more think a little harder about breeding, whether they really should, considering this culling that I honestly was ignorant to before reading this thread. I really do feel bad for all you wonderful breeders, with how saturated the market is right now, and this culling that I'm sure none of you find easy to say the least..I really don't think I could do it, to be perfectly honest with myself - which is exactly why I have something to really think about from this thread! Thank you, and I have nothing but admiration and respect for you breeders who persevere for the love of corns.

This is exactly what I was hoping for when I said those thinking about breeding should be forced to read this.

I respect all of the wonderful breeders here and will glady purchase quality pets from you guys.