Setting up the new tank for my girl before I move her to it. It is a 40 gallon critter cage. I put an UTH for a 50-60 gallon on it. The warm end, at substrate level, is only getting to 77, to cool end is in the 60s. I'm thinking of supplementing some heat with a red bulb over the warm end. maybe just a 50 watt? The heater has been on for about 12 hours now.
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UTH not keeping it warm enough
- Thread starter erikamc
- Start date
Karl_Mcknight
Common Sense Holder
you need to measure the heat temp directly on the glass bottom of the tank, not on top of your substrate. If the top of the substrate is 77, then down below on the glass it's probably 85 or more. Measure it down there. Your snake can burrow through the substrate to get to the heat layer it wants.
The cool end in the 60's could be problematic. You want the cool end to be around 74. If you're going to add additional heat, you might want to add it to the cool end.
I actually use 2 heat pads on my tank because I have the same problem. It gets really cold here. So I have 1 heat pad set at 86 degrees and 1 set at 73. The pad on the cooler end only comes on if the temps drop below 73, but the warm end stays on all the time.
And again, measure the temps on the actual glass, not on the substrate.
The cool end in the 60's could be problematic. You want the cool end to be around 74. If you're going to add additional heat, you might want to add it to the cool end.
I actually use 2 heat pads on my tank because I have the same problem. It gets really cold here. So I have 1 heat pad set at 86 degrees and 1 set at 73. The pad on the cooler end only comes on if the temps drop below 73, but the warm end stays on all the time.
And again, measure the temps on the actual glass, not on the substrate.
DollysMom
It never gets old!
A picture is worth 1000 words. The black in the center of the hide is the thermometer probe. It is suctioned cupped to the glass. It was covered with substrate but evidently last night someone was curled up on it 
. It's a little hard to see in the pic but there is a little snake size hollow there.
P.S. I just realize I may have implied that Karl's words weren't clear. They were clear and no such thing was intended. It's just that I had this really nifty pic of it.
. It's a little hard to see in the pic but there is a little snake size hollow there.
P.S. I just realize I may have implied that Karl's words weren't clear. They were clear and no such thing was intended. It's just that I had this really nifty pic of it.
What Karl and Dolly said.
Do not measure on top of the substrate, because your snake is not floating on the top of the substrate. (Esp. unregulated,) your UTH could be dangerously hot on the glass surface, and you won't know it by only measuring the fluffy bedding.
I find a lazer temp gun to be the easiest and most accurate way to check the glass surface. Because of the glass barrier, the gun will generally read 1 or 2 degrees cooler than the temp at which you set the thermostat.
A pet peeve of mine is that all books, care sheets, etc. seem to assume the average person is living in a luxurious and balmy 72F winter room temp. Bah!! I've woken up to a kitchen that was 49F more than once this winter. We don't all enjoy our own thermostats with powerful furnaces and central heating. If I want heat here, I have to get some kindling and light the wood stove.
You will just need to work with a secondary heat source for the rest of the enclosure. Personally, I like an RHP in addition to the UTH. This factor is the reason why the upgraded t-stat I ordered today can run two different heat sources. That will be $200 well spent if it reduces some heating headaches. It has been a learning curve; I'm grateful I started with the hardier colubrids. I would have killed a boa.
Do not measure on top of the substrate, because your snake is not floating on the top of the substrate. (Esp. unregulated,) your UTH could be dangerously hot on the glass surface, and you won't know it by only measuring the fluffy bedding.
I find a lazer temp gun to be the easiest and most accurate way to check the glass surface. Because of the glass barrier, the gun will generally read 1 or 2 degrees cooler than the temp at which you set the thermostat.
A pet peeve of mine is that all books, care sheets, etc. seem to assume the average person is living in a luxurious and balmy 72F winter room temp. Bah!! I've woken up to a kitchen that was 49F more than once this winter. We don't all enjoy our own thermostats with powerful furnaces and central heating. If I want heat here, I have to get some kindling and light the wood stove.
You will just need to work with a secondary heat source for the rest of the enclosure. Personally, I like an RHP in addition to the UTH. This factor is the reason why the upgraded t-stat I ordered today can run two different heat sources. That will be $200 well spent if it reduces some heating headaches. It has been a learning curve; I'm grateful I started with the hardier colubrids. I would have killed a boa.
ok, so air temperature isn't an issue? She honestly doesn't seem like much of a burrower, she has come pretty compacted pathways in her current cage, but no burrows. Also, the UTH directions say to use a layer of protection between the glass and the substrate to keep her from coming in contact with the glass, which could be too hot, do you guys agree? I TRY to keep my house at 62F, even thats a struggle at times because its so poorly insulated. The room she is in is probably the warmest as its centrally located, the sun comes in most of the day and I have the curtains open for the giant plant that I rescued. I do have one thermostat, but I wanted to see what I was working with before I plugged it in (as in, what the temps in the tank got to.). I may as well ask this here too, do any of you see any issues with plugging all this stuff into a surge protector?
DollysMom
It never gets old!
I agree Distaff, the temp gun was one of my best purchases. For safety, I do turn off the laser when using in the snake enclosure; but you can get the gun really close to the surface you are measuring there so you can do without.
I still like having my warm and cool side thermometers with probes. They give me two critical temps at a glance without opening up th viv.
Besides in the vivs I find I use the temp gun all around the house. Very worth the money.
In another life I lived in a house without central heat. I had years of hauling logs to stay warm
I still like having my warm and cool side thermometers with probes. They give me two critical temps at a glance without opening up th viv.
Besides in the vivs I find I use the temp gun all around the house. Very worth the money.
In another life I lived in a house without central heat. I had years of hauling logs to stay warm
Karl_Mcknight
Common Sense Holder
1). Air temp is not as important. The snake doesn't spend much time in the air, rather it lays on the bottom of the tank. The temp there where it lays is more important. Air temp does effect the overall temp of the tank though, and with it being as cool as it is, I'm afraid this may cause issues for you.
2). Yes, you don't want the snake to come into direct contact with the heating unit. A Substrate of some type should be used. Aspen, Newspapers, paper towels, Repti-Bark, Reptile Carpet are all acceptable. Some of those heat pads can hit 115 degrees or more. I hope you are using a thermostat as well???? You did not say. Without a thermostat it could get really hot on the bottom of the cage even though the air above is cooler. Ideally, you want about 85 degrees right there where the snake will be laying.
3). As I already mentioned, 62 degrees is too cool for a corn snake. You may end up with issues, (Respiratory infections, Digestive issues, Sluggish activity). The "Cool End" should be a minimum of 70 degrees, and would probably be better at 74. You will need to somehow get the temp up either in the entire room or in the cage itself. (That's why I mentioned in my above post I use 2 heat pads instead of 1. One for the warm side and one for the cool side. I have the same problem as you, it's very cold here.)
4). Can you plug into a Surge Protector? Absolutely. I plug all my electronics into surge protectors.
It is easy to run out of outlets on even a surge protector. However, most of this stuff draws tiny amounts. Check your watts. My 6"X11" UTH draws 7 watts. The Jungle Dawn LED (not necessary for the snake, I use it for the plants) draws 9 watts. The RHP uses 28 (?IIRC) watts. Those are unregulated figures. The t-stat should save on that, over and above what it, itself uses.
A heat lamp (which shouldn't be on at night anyway), or CHE might draw 60 or 100 watts. (maybe less - I don't use them), which is why I don't use them; they will significantly raise the electric bill. Much better to do what Karl does, and simply add another UTH set at a lower temp. This means that you need a t-stat that can be set for regulating two different heat sources (it will have a plug-in for each), or you need two separate t-stats. My kingsnake enclosure (like Karl's) has two UTH's. In my case, each regulated by a separate cheap Hydrofarm. (Not the best way to go, but clearly better than nothing, and also much better than a dimmer.)
A heat lamp (which shouldn't be on at night anyway), or CHE might draw 60 or 100 watts. (maybe less - I don't use them), which is why I don't use them; they will significantly raise the electric bill. Much better to do what Karl does, and simply add another UTH set at a lower temp. This means that you need a t-stat that can be set for regulating two different heat sources (it will have a plug-in for each), or you need two separate t-stats. My kingsnake enclosure (like Karl's) has two UTH's. In my case, each regulated by a separate cheap Hydrofarm. (Not the best way to go, but clearly better than nothing, and also much better than a dimmer.)
Also, I agree with Dolly about the ease of just glancing at a couple of thermometers equipped with probes. I don't have much in the way of these right now, because all the ones I purchased ($15 each) ended up having issues. Some were quirky right out of the box, but I thought it was just me, and I was able to get them to work properly for a while...
DollysMom
It never gets old!
Also, I agree with Dolly about the ease of just glancing at a couple of thermometers equipped with probes. I don't have much in the way of these right now, because all the ones I purchased ($15 each) ended up having issues. Some were quirky right out of the box, but I thought it was just me, and I was able to get them to work properly for a while...
I get mine on eBay and check them against a known good thermometer. They've all been within a degree. I get them for less than $2 ea. including shipping from overseas. They say "aquarium" on them but who cares? All you need is to allow time for them to arrive from overseas. I keep about four ahead just in case. I also keep spare batteries.
In case anyone is worried, she isn't in the tank yet. Just want to make that clear. Want to get the temps right before I move her.
I have aspen in there, but the UTH package said to use something between the glass and the substrate (aspen in my case), just wonder if I should cut some paper or order some rugs.
I have two thermometers going right now. one is a zoomed with a probe, the other is a household indoor/outdoor thermometer where the base is for measuring indoor temps and a probe for outdoor (stole it from my gecko for now).
I have the zoomed probe on the warm end, the indoor base in the middle and the outdoor probe on the cold end.
I do have a thermostat, but have not plugged it in yet. In order to reach a better outlet, I need to run a power strip, I wasn't sure if I could run this stuff in one or not.
Dollysmom, is that 84F the temp under the substrate?
I have aspen in there, but the UTH package said to use something between the glass and the substrate (aspen in my case), just wonder if I should cut some paper or order some rugs.
I have two thermometers going right now. one is a zoomed with a probe, the other is a household indoor/outdoor thermometer where the base is for measuring indoor temps and a probe for outdoor (stole it from my gecko for now).
I have the zoomed probe on the warm end, the indoor base in the middle and the outdoor probe on the cold end.
I do have a thermostat, but have not plugged it in yet. In order to reach a better outlet, I need to run a power strip, I wasn't sure if I could run this stuff in one or not.
Dollysmom, is that 84F the temp under the substrate?
DollysMom
It never gets old!
The 84 temp is with the probe on the glass, but it is after my snake uncovered the probe by digging in the substrate last night. With the substrate over it, it would read 85 or even 86. Substrate does insulate. Also, since my thermostat is an on/off type the temp can vary a bit. It also varies when the snake lays on top of the probe. Sometimes I can tell when my snake is in her hide even when substrate hides my view, just from the temp change.
I know that's more than you asked but I wanted to give you the complete picture.
I know that's more than you asked but I wanted to give you the complete picture.
good to know! I placed the probe on the glass and it was 107. So, I put the aspen (determined the stuff the girl had her on was pine) back over it and set the probe on top of it again. the warm side was now 86F, the cool side was 72. I was happy with that and moved her in. SHE LOVES IT! She's been exploring her tank, all I have for hides right now are two cardboard boxes and a rubbermaid container, but she has utilized both box hides (not the damp hide though, I think I need something bigger). She is loving this!
I stuff all my hides with frog moss. The dry hides have dry moss, and the humid hide has damp moss that gets checked daily and re-moistened as needed. My reasoning is that, with a stuffed hide, the snake can get as tight a fit as it wants. It also means all three hides can be identical. I conceal the hides themselves under sheets of bark.
For the tiny kings, I use small tupperware type containers (remove the lid, and turn upside down) for the dollar store. The adult corn has Reptile Basics black plastic hides, size medium.
I like plastic because it is easy to clean. When I started with snakes, I sourced cardboard hides, but those would always be quickly soiled. Seemed almost intentional.
For the tiny kings, I use small tupperware type containers (remove the lid, and turn upside down) for the dollar store. The adult corn has Reptile Basics black plastic hides, size medium.
I like plastic because it is easy to clean. When I started with snakes, I sourced cardboard hides, but those would always be quickly soiled. Seemed almost intentional.