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- Thread starter rmestre
- Start date
Disheartening and confusing
When I posted here about the type of corn snake I also emailed the pics to five top breeders (who will remain anonymous) and asked the same question, as well as emailed some professionals who belong to the PARC Partners in Amphibian and Reptile Conservation group I am a member of.
Every breeder said it is an Okeetee, BUT one went on to explain that an Okeetee is just a normal corn also known as a red rat snake, with exceptional color, and bold black borders. Two offered to buy it from me, noting the prominent gold or yellow in contrast with the bold black borders and deep red.
Every professional (by professional I mean breeder, teacher, biologist and such) explained the same definition of Okeetee, being a normal but with bold striking colors, and was once so called for the area most were found, but no more due to breeding for these bold colors, more red being the most wanted.
Here is one definition from http://www.reptileallsorts.com/
'Okeetee Corns (aka: classic corns) originated around the Okeetee Hunt Club property in South Carolina. These snakes are characterized by deep red dorsal blotches surrounded by very black borders. The ground color varies with bright orange being the most desirable. As with the Miami phase, selective breeding has changed the term "Okeetee" to an appearance trait rather than a local designation. '
I am more inclined towards Joejr14's views of it just being a normal with good color. I was a little disheartened that when looking through the top breeders sites I saw just as many variations with Okeetees as I did normals. Bold colors do not set a very good guideline for a breed. I even saw many with no black borders. Just do a seach on Google or click here http://www.google.com/search?q=okee...&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&start=10&sa=N
and you will see what I mean. It's no wonder there is alot of arguments over this subject. Anyway I just wanted to post my findings, and I wanted to personaly thank Joejr14 for peeking my interest enough to do this.
When I posted here about the type of corn snake I also emailed the pics to five top breeders (who will remain anonymous) and asked the same question, as well as emailed some professionals who belong to the PARC Partners in Amphibian and Reptile Conservation group I am a member of.
Every breeder said it is an Okeetee, BUT one went on to explain that an Okeetee is just a normal corn also known as a red rat snake, with exceptional color, and bold black borders. Two offered to buy it from me, noting the prominent gold or yellow in contrast with the bold black borders and deep red.
Every professional (by professional I mean breeder, teacher, biologist and such) explained the same definition of Okeetee, being a normal but with bold striking colors, and was once so called for the area most were found, but no more due to breeding for these bold colors, more red being the most wanted.
Here is one definition from http://www.reptileallsorts.com/
'Okeetee Corns (aka: classic corns) originated around the Okeetee Hunt Club property in South Carolina. These snakes are characterized by deep red dorsal blotches surrounded by very black borders. The ground color varies with bright orange being the most desirable. As with the Miami phase, selective breeding has changed the term "Okeetee" to an appearance trait rather than a local designation. '
I am more inclined towards Joejr14's views of it just being a normal with good color. I was a little disheartened that when looking through the top breeders sites I saw just as many variations with Okeetees as I did normals. Bold colors do not set a very good guideline for a breed. I even saw many with no black borders. Just do a seach on Google or click here http://www.google.com/search?q=okee...&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&start=10&sa=N
and you will see what I mean. It's no wonder there is alot of arguments over this subject. Anyway I just wanted to post my findings, and I wanted to personaly thank Joejr14 for peeking my interest enough to do this.
A lady who is staying in the motel I run found him in the middle of a gas station. Instead of just moving it to a safe area she kept it. After a few weeks of asking me a million questions she gave him to me because she could not care for it. He is eating very well now and in quite good shape.
Joejr14
Grand Bubble Burster
rmestre said:
Rob, not to be rude especially since you just thanked me, but I question who you emailed.
Did your top 5 include any of the following three?
Rich Zuchowski ([email protected]), Don Soderberg ([email protected]), Kathy Love ([email protected])?
If those 3 were not in your top 5, then your top 5 doesn't count
. I'm not saying that to be rude, but that cornsnake is not an okeetee and I would be SHOCKED if those 3 said it was.There is a HUGE debate about okeetees on the genetics/morph board. You might want to give that a quick read. Basically, to be an okeetee most consider the thick black borders, and color matters too. The 'yellow' background color on your snake in my opinion, shows that it's a normal. Most okeetees have a very deep red background color as well as saddle color.
Joejr14 said:Rob, not to be rude especially since you just thanked me, but I question who you emailed.
Did your top 5 include any of the following three?
Rich Zuchowski ([email protected]), Don Soderberg ([email protected]), Kathy Love ([email protected])?
If those 3 were not in your top 5, then your top 5 doesn't count
There is a HUGE debate about okeetees on the genetics/morph board. You might want to give that a quick read. Basically, to be an okeetee most consider the thick black borders, and color matters too. The 'yellow' background color on your snake in my opinion, shows that it's a normal. Most okeetees have a very deep red background color as well as saddle color.
I dont think youre being rude. Ill see if any of them were the ones you posted, if not Ill email them. Thank you for the info, like I said as far as corn snakes I am in the learning stage. I just got a little confused by what I saw on the net. I must have looked through 200 sites easy, and saw so many different looking "Okeetees". But like I said I just think he is a normal. Ill let you know what responses I get when I email the people you told me about. Thank you again for all your help!
DdotSpot
The Snewbie
Joejr14 said:
Actually the majority of the really nice Okeetees that I've seen have a deep orange background with a deep red saddle color...referencing Don's pics on his website, I don't see any that have a 'very deep red background'...
Joe...check your monitor colors, they may be a bit off :sidestep:
j/k
Joejr14
Grand Bubble Burster
rmestre said:
Good stuff. Sometimes people get VERY fiesty when you give them the response that they're not looking for. Those are the top 3 in the cornsnake world so that should give you your answer.
A lot of people label normals as okeetees---and why---because okeetees sell better. Kathy has some great okeetees on her website, as does Don.
Here are some okeetees:
These are wild caught by elrojo who posts here. He hunts in/around the Hunt Club and these are exceptional specimens.
Now, I want you to go to this link here. I believe these are all F1's from elrojo's wild caught snakes. These are *true* okeetees.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13933
Im in Orlando. I just emailed the 3 expert referenced, but I did get a email return failure at this address [email protected]
Joejr14
Grand Bubble Burster
DdotSpot said:Actually the majority of the really nice Okeetees that I've seen have a deep orange background with a deep red saddle color...referencing Don's pics on his website, I don't see any that have a 'very deep red background'...
Joe...check your monitor colors, they may be a bit off :sidestep:
j/k
Oops. You're right they mainly do have a nice deep rich orange background color, but Cav's F1's from Chip are RED.
Just to add to what Joe said about Chip Bridges, do a search for Rhett Butler and gaze upon the finest okeetee ever :cheers: Also check out Don's site www.cornsnakes.net to see some more AWESOME corns of all varieties :wavey: