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Dream Corns
- Thread starter Tony D
- Start date
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
Oops, Here is a better link. I don't seem to be able to edit anymore.Tony D said:
Here are the results from Serps Hypo Test Breeding of a Het Hypo and Amel X Dream. His photos are done with newer equipment and show the same differences.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20388
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
A very simple question, that can not be answered simply.
A Dream Corn is a hypo type Corn that a very recent test has shown are genetically homo for Hypo A or Standard Hypo. Dream Corns are a “line” of Corns that Tony started many years ago from a wild caught “Okeetee” that was very light in appearance. He bought an “Okeetee” from a “West Coast” breeder and eventually produced clutches like the one in his above photo. He assumed that the hypos in these clutches were from a gene that was carried by the light colored wild Okeetee.
They were very bright compared to common Hypos and he coined a common name for this line as “Dreams“. Tony likes Corns, but they are not his main interest and never had the desire to test them out to see if they were a new genetic hypo or a compatible match to an existing one, but thought they were different enough to have a name of their own.
A Hypo Test Breeding Project was started by a group of us last year that anybody can participate in. The goal of this project was to start to put some of these common named hypos such as Tony’s Dream Line into compatible genetic groups by testing them to proven hypo lines. At the time, we had many common named hypos which were mysteries genetically. Dreams, Strawberrys, Pumpkins, Christmas, Ultra, Ultralite, Ruby Eyed, T+Albinos and on and on.
We expected some of these common named hypos to be compatible with proven known genetic hypos of the time, and we suspected that some of them may prove out to be genetically unique. Serp has a Dream female and participated in the Test Project last year by breeding her to a Lava and produced Normals. This test showed that the two lines were not compatible. Serp bred this same Dream female to a Het for Hypo and Amel which was a test to see if the Dream was compatible with Hypo or Ultra. The Dream matched up with the Hypo gene in the Het and approximately 50% hypos and 50% Normals were produced in the clutch so a logical conclusion one can come to is that the Dream line is genetically Standard Hypo.
Serp and I suspected this due to Amels being produced in the first few clutches along with the Dreams that Tony produced. If the “Okeetee” that Tony bought, was carrying the Amel gene, then it was not a locality wild Okeetee, but could also be carrying the Hypo gene as well. There were many other possibilities as well, but that one seemed to be the most likely. The Dreams also look a great deal like Hypo Okeetees that have been created by beginning a project with a Hypo X Okeetee breeding.
I know that you are still probably scratching your head about how Serp was testing the Dreams compatibility with Ultra by breeding her to an Amel carrier. That would make this post longer that it is already going to be, but Amels and Ultras are located at the same locus so they match up, so an easy test for Ultra is the “Amel Test”.
Today we have four genetically unique hypo type Corns that is generally accepted, but more time is needed for some of them to be set in stone. The first and most common is the Standard Hypo, (Hypo) that we have also designated Type A. Sunkissed Hypo was proven next (Type B), then came Lava Hypos (Type C) and Ultra Hypos (Type D). Any two of these types that you choose, will produce normals when bred together. Ultras proved to be a new type of hypo gene through the Test Breeding Project, but a cooperative off shoot of this project also proved that they are compatible with Amel. When you bred an Ultra X Amel you get an in-between looking snake that is becoming known as Ultramel.
A Dream Corn is a hypo type Corn that a very recent test has shown are genetically homo for Hypo A or Standard Hypo. Dream Corns are a “line” of Corns that Tony started many years ago from a wild caught “Okeetee” that was very light in appearance. He bought an “Okeetee” from a “West Coast” breeder and eventually produced clutches like the one in his above photo. He assumed that the hypos in these clutches were from a gene that was carried by the light colored wild Okeetee.
They were very bright compared to common Hypos and he coined a common name for this line as “Dreams“. Tony likes Corns, but they are not his main interest and never had the desire to test them out to see if they were a new genetic hypo or a compatible match to an existing one, but thought they were different enough to have a name of their own.
A Hypo Test Breeding Project was started by a group of us last year that anybody can participate in. The goal of this project was to start to put some of these common named hypos such as Tony’s Dream Line into compatible genetic groups by testing them to proven hypo lines. At the time, we had many common named hypos which were mysteries genetically. Dreams, Strawberrys, Pumpkins, Christmas, Ultra, Ultralite, Ruby Eyed, T+Albinos and on and on.
We expected some of these common named hypos to be compatible with proven known genetic hypos of the time, and we suspected that some of them may prove out to be genetically unique. Serp has a Dream female and participated in the Test Project last year by breeding her to a Lava and produced Normals. This test showed that the two lines were not compatible. Serp bred this same Dream female to a Het for Hypo and Amel which was a test to see if the Dream was compatible with Hypo or Ultra. The Dream matched up with the Hypo gene in the Het and approximately 50% hypos and 50% Normals were produced in the clutch so a logical conclusion one can come to is that the Dream line is genetically Standard Hypo.
Serp and I suspected this due to Amels being produced in the first few clutches along with the Dreams that Tony produced. If the “Okeetee” that Tony bought, was carrying the Amel gene, then it was not a locality wild Okeetee, but could also be carrying the Hypo gene as well. There were many other possibilities as well, but that one seemed to be the most likely. The Dreams also look a great deal like Hypo Okeetees that have been created by beginning a project with a Hypo X Okeetee breeding.
I know that you are still probably scratching your head about how Serp was testing the Dreams compatibility with Ultra by breeding her to an Amel carrier. That would make this post longer that it is already going to be, but Amels and Ultras are located at the same locus so they match up, so an easy test for Ultra is the “Amel Test”.
Today we have four genetically unique hypo type Corns that is generally accepted, but more time is needed for some of them to be set in stone. The first and most common is the Standard Hypo, (Hypo) that we have also designated Type A. Sunkissed Hypo was proven next (Type B), then came Lava Hypos (Type C) and Ultra Hypos (Type D). Any two of these types that you choose, will produce normals when bred together. Ultras proved to be a new type of hypo gene through the Test Breeding Project, but a cooperative off shoot of this project also proved that they are compatible with Amel. When you bred an Ultra X Amel you get an in-between looking snake that is becoming known as Ultramel.
Serpwidgets
New member
Ya, I would go so far as to completely drop the word "hypo" from all mention in association with sunkissed, lava, or ultra corns. Charcoal is not a type of anery... it is a gene that creates a phenotype similar-looking to anery, but it is not a type of anery because it has nothing to do with the genes at the anery locus. By the same token, a sunkissed is not a hypo, it is a sunkissed. Lava is not a hypo, it's a lava... it's a mutant that causes a phenotype that in some ways resembles hypomelanistics. Same goes for ultras. They are not really "ultra hypos" but just ultras.
I'm very very glad that Charcoal has replaced "anery B" and that sunkissed and lava got their own names instead of being called "hypo B" or "hypo C." Notice that you don't see the once-a-week "what do I get if I cross anery X charcoal" like we used to constantly get, back when it was instead called "anery B." If we only call them "Hypo, Sunkissed, Lava, Ultra" then hopefully we can avoid that whole mess with "what do I get when I cross hypo X to hypo Y."
I'm very very glad that Charcoal has replaced "anery B" and that sunkissed and lava got their own names instead of being called "hypo B" or "hypo C." Notice that you don't see the once-a-week "what do I get if I cross anery X charcoal" like we used to constantly get, back when it was instead called "anery B." If we only call them "Hypo, Sunkissed, Lava, Ultra" then hopefully we can avoid that whole mess with "what do I get when I cross hypo X to hypo Y."
ecreipeoj
Striped Topaz SK SG Free
I agree completely.
There is no need for a descriptive term such as hypo to be included in the Name of any other hypo except Standard Hypo or just Hypo. It just confuses the situation, much like Striped Corns and Motleys that are striped. Everybody always confuses the noun with the adjective. It is however, very difficult to describe to somebody what a Lava Corn is without saying that it is a type of hypomelanistic snake.
I like to use the descriptive term of diffused to describe a pattern trait, but I have a hard time using it as a Name for the same reason as above.
There is no need for a descriptive term such as hypo to be included in the Name of any other hypo except Standard Hypo or just Hypo. It just confuses the situation, much like Striped Corns and Motleys that are striped. Everybody always confuses the noun with the adjective. It is however, very difficult to describe to somebody what a Lava Corn is without saying that it is a type of hypomelanistic snake.
I like to use the descriptive term of diffused to describe a pattern trait, but I have a hard time using it as a Name for the same reason as above.