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heating problems?? or not?

mpharris1989

hi! i'm new!!!
hey im new to cornsnakes (and all snakes as well) and have been starting to get my setup prepared for the big day. I want to make sure that i have everything right before my purchase to play it safe.

i have my heat pad set up on the right side of the cage and it is currently about 90

the left side (non-heated) is about 69

i am using a 10 gallon tank for a baby so i'll move up once it gets bigger

so how should i regulate the temperature to get the warm side of the tank to be the ideal 80-85 and the low side to be 70-75???
 
ok, wow i feel like an idiot, i just read about 4 care sheets, and one says "ambient air temperature" which is air if i'm correct. My previous post was when i had the thermometer on the top of the bedding, so i'll see how it goes from here in the morning.

...and this is why i'm taking my time and not rushing this :p
 
I am very new to this as well I have only had my young corn for a day and half now and I went through the same steps of getting my tank up and running for a while to monitor it before I brought her home. Its a great way to approach things imo.

From my understanding Ambient Air temperature is not as important as the temperature of the substrate on each end of the tank as that is what your snake will be touching. One question I would ask is do you have a Rheostat or Thermostat regulating the temperature of the UTH? 90 is a bit high so if you do you'll want to lower it with the thermostat a bit. If not then you might want to consider getting one as you'll want to be able to control heat levels giving off, if room temperature changes and it doesn't back down the tank could over heat etc.

The cool end seems a little cool to me I read 72 to 75 is a nice cool side temp, what I did to get my cool side temp good was I increased the temperature in my apartment and did fine adjustments until the room temp and the UTH worked together to create 73.5 cool, and 83 warm at about 60% humidity. It took a few days of tweaking leaving for a few hours then coming back to tweak a bit more until I found the right settings. If you don't have that option perhaps a lamp or something that gives off a little extra heat if placed nearby that side could help to bring it up a bit.

All the best of luck in your attempts to get things setup, and like you say its so much better for both you and the snake to get this all sorted out now atleast I definitely am glad I did it that way too.
 
I have my thermometer smack on my bedding.

I have been reading up on these forums and if I remember correctly, belly temprature is more important then ambient tempuratures. Snakes need belly heat to digest their food.

90 might be just a little too high. People generally keep their warm side from 82-86.
If you are using an UTH (under tank heater) and your aspen is at 90, I would recommend you getting a rheostat **you can type in "rheostat in the search and it will tell you how to build one, I did and it was super easy and works** or you can get a thermostat. This will make sure the GLASS right above your UTH is way too hot. Mine was at about 110 OUCH! This can really hurt your little buddy.
 
You will want the thermometer's probe to be right over the glass where the UTH is..You'll want to get a rheostat/thermostat to control the UTH or else it will get way to hot..If your cool side is to cool as suggested placing a little lamp near the area would be fine or adjusting your house temperature..There are a few ways to get the perfect cool side gradiant..good luck to you :0)
 
I am very new to this as well I have only had my young corn for a day and half now and I went through the same steps of getting my tank up and running for a while to monitor it before I brought her home. Its a great way to approach things imo.

From my understanding Ambient Air temperature is not as important as the temperature of the substrate on each end of the tank as that is what your snake will be touching. One question I would ask is do you have a Rheostat or Thermostat regulating the temperature of the UTH? 90 is a bit high so if you do you'll want to lower it with the thermostat a bit. If not then you might want to consider getting one as you'll want to be able to control heat levels giving off, if room temperature changes and it doesn't back down the tank could over heat etc.

The cool end seems a little cool to me I read 72 to 75 is a nice cool side temp, what I did to get my cool side temp good was I increased the temperature in my apartment and did fine adjustments until the room temp and the UTH worked together to create 73.5 cool, and 83 warm at about 60% humidity. It took a few days of tweaking leaving for a few hours then coming back to tweak a bit more until I found the right settings. If you don't have that option perhaps a lamp or something that gives off a little extra heat if placed nearby that side could help to bring it up a bit.

All the best of luck in your attempts to get things setup, and like you say its so much better for both you and the snake to get this all sorted out now atleast I definitely am glad I did it that way too.

thanks, i think so too!! i don't wanna take any shortcuts on this either so i might as well get it right first!

and ya im checking all the temps again right now. i'll do the temp an inch above the litter (air temp), then i'll check the temp just sitting on the surfice of the litter, and then below the litter.

thanks guys, and i'll let ya'll know how this comes out
 
alright, i just checked them all and the temp. under the litter but not on the glass directly is 90-92
the temp. sitting on right on top of the litter (as a snake would) is about 84-85
however the air temp about an inch above the litter is about74-75

so please let me know how this is doing

thanks
 
Sounds ok to me.

I dont have my thermometer probe directly on the glass, i have it about a CM deep in the aspen under his warm hide and i try to keep that area at 80-85. I have the probe for my thermostat on the gass and the thermostat set to around 88.

When i had both the temp probe and the thermo probe against the glass and kept the glass at around 80-85 i found chompy would almost always be buried to get nearer the heat. Since moving the temp probe up and making it so the surface temperature is ideal for him he's not burrowed down once he's always been under his warm hide.
 
when measuring the hot side temp, remember your trying to measure the maximum temperature your snake will be exposed too, so that would be the temp under your substrate, right at the bottom of your tank. Do you have a digital thermometer with a probe?
 
alright, i just checked them all and the temp. under the litter but not on the glass directly is 90-92
the temp. sitting on right on top of the litter (as a snake would) is about 84-85
however the air temp about an inch above the litter is about74-75

so please let me know how this is doing

thanks

I think we need to knock out some misconceptions here. Your snake is not always guarentted to sit on top of the litter, in fact our corns often burrow under it.
Hence the reason that you want to be able to measure the hottest temp that they have acess to. Therefore 90-92 is considered to hot.
 
alright, thanks guys

ya originally i thought burried was right, but then other care sheets said that it is the air temp that mattered, then others said the top of the substrate.
I'm really glad this is at least getting somewhere so i don't end up doing something wrong.
Please forgive me for my ignorance and using your time.

many thanks again!!!
 
no worries, ambient air temp is also important.

If you have a digital thermometer with probe, then you can use the probe to measure the temp on the UTH, under the substrate and the measure ambient aire temp using the body of the digi thermometer, they usually have two panels. A good air temp for the cool side, is 21 degrees celscious, as long as youve got that controlled the warm side with the properly regulated UTH will look after the warm side, and your done.
 
the air temp about an inch above the litter is about74-75
the temp. sitting on right on top of the litter (as a snake would) is about 84-85
the temp. under the litter (about 1cm) but not on the glass directly is 90-92
and i just tested the temp. right on top of the glass under the litter and it's like 138 :(

so everything sounds horribly wrong besides the top of the litter where the snake will sit
although what worries me is the air temp being lowww and the glass on the bottom if the snake decides to burrow is going to scorch it!!

please helppppp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
You *need* something to regulate your tempatures.
As I said in your intro topic:
You need to purchase a thermostat or a rheostat or there are directions on this site for building your own rheostat for $7.

A thermostat is designed to keep a tank at a designated tempature that you set for it, turning the heater on and off to meet those needs.
A Rheostat is basically a fancy light dimmer that keeps constant power going to the UTH but only at a certain dial, the down side with rheostats is if your ambient (room) tempature changes you'll have to adjust the rheostat for that.
__________________

And your snake WILL burrow so don't keep assuming that on the "off chance" it goes down there it's going to get too hot. It IS going to get too hot.
 
You don't need a thermostat or anything else just a UTH. The only temperature you need to worry about is on top of your bedding. A warm side hide about 85 and a cool side hide about 75 degrees. You can read what Don from SMR wrote on the same subject. Here it is (with his permission) :
No thermostats necessary . .
I haven't read each and every post on this thread, but am compelled to offer some observations, in response to the general tone of thread participants.

Ball pythons love to cook themselves (probably other species too), but not corns. I personally have never had a corn burrow down to the hot plate below and get burned. Of course, I can't say it hasn't happened to someone, but I have some statistics to offer.

I sell over 2,500 neonate corns annually and have done so for over eight years. Before that, I probably sold at least 1,000 per year for over five years, and so on. Let's just say, I'm certain I've sold well over 35,000 corns. 80+% of my customers are buying their first snake, so you can imagine how much time I spend with them, going over environmental requirements and answering newby Qs. I'm positive that over 98% of my customers are using UT (Under Tank) heat and I'm equally certain that 98% of those are NOT using thermostats. These stats come from speaking to customers that call to discuss heating, watering, cage furnishings, shedding, feeding, etc.. Out of those 35,000+ snakes sold, not one single person ever called to ask me how to treat a belly burn (or any other belly sore). In all the years I've been keeping snakes, not one corn of any size ever burned itself, while in my care.

Observations:
The stats speak for themselves, but only because of the efficiency of what I call the passive rheostat, (aspen substrate). If you put the UT heater under one end of the cage and have a one to three inch depth of aspen bedding (or similar bedding product), corn snakes will NOT burn themselves. One key to the success of this safety is remembering that corns like to hide. If you adjust the depth of the substrate to result in a temperature of 79-85F INSIDE the warm-side hide, your corn will spend 80+% of it's life in that hide. As long as there is another hide (also dark and seclusive) on the cool end of the cage, the two hides are where they'll spend most of the daytime hours of their lives. Only if the warm-side hide falls below 79 will they seek warmer digs, BUT I have never seen nor heard of one burning itself on the hot glass below. If they do burrow, they seldom go to the glass and often if they do go that deep, they can be found inches from the warmest part of the glass. No burns result.
Note: If using a thin floor covering in the cage such as newsprint or paper towels, thermostats and/or rheostats are recommended.

Now, having given you personal testimony about the many thousands of snakes I've had in my care, and that of many thousands of other customers and associates that do NOT use thermostats, it should be obvious that corns CAN thrive in captivity without temperature control devices. I didn't mention the people that have called me over the years, crying about failed thermostats. Each time you employ the services of an electronic device of any kind, it's not a matter of if there'll be a problem, but when the device will fail. Granted, such a failure will be brief, but it WILL happen. I will not argue that using a thermostat or rheostat may be more energy efficient and that it will help maintain a more constant thermal gradient in the cage that is more conducive to digestion, but I can assure you that in the absence of a temperature control device, not only will the warm-side be safe and efficient for digestion (as long as the room temperature does not exceed 85F), but totally safe for your snake. Of course, if your room temperature exceeds 85F, even a thermostat will not help you avoid potential hyperthermia.
Note: If you are one of those that thinks thermostats are crucial to the welfare of your snake, are you using two of them redundently? If you really think a thermostat is crucial, surely you understand the need for a back-up that will kick in if the primary device fails. Otherwise, if the thermostat fails in the OPEN position, you'd better have a deep substrate depth, sufficient to protect your snake from the falsely perceived threat of it getting belly burned.

Thermostats may have some benefits, but they are definitely not a prerequisite to corn snake husbandry. I have tens of thousands of customers that will attest to this fact. There are hundreds of different ways to safely and efficiently maintain corn snakes, but it doesn't mean that one of those ways is the only way. If thousands of my customers are safely keeping cornsnakes healthy and free of thermal-related afflictions, it is safe to say thermostats are NOT essential. In fact, in some cases, electronic failure could result in problems, but even a run-away thermostat should not stick in the OPEN position enough to affect your snake, unless you have no cool hide in which the snake can retreat. I'm not verbally spanking anyone for their advice in this thread. I don't do that, since I know the way they're keeping their corns is so successful, they want to share it with others. I just want to show that other ways work well also.

Regarding the temperature of the glass above the UT heater; you can monitor glass temperatures over 130F in some cases. In the absence of using a theromostat or rheostat, and with sufficient substrate depth, your snake can enjoy low 80sF inside the warm-side hide.

Note: If the hide is not sufficient dark inside, they may burrow into the substrate to block the light from their eyes, but that is nothing to worry about. They will NOT get close enough to the heat source to get burned.

Regarding OT lights vs UT heaters, it's a no-brainer to me. In the wild, air temperatures can play a role in corn snakes achieving comfort and nominal digestion, but in captivity, there is little benefit to using OT heat. Not only does 80+% of the heat from a round incandescent light bulb never reach the snake, but the air in the cage is usually unacceptably dry as a result of that type of heat. Since heated air rises, UT heating is not only more efficient and beneficial to energy conservation, but a more natural way for snakes to achieve nominal metabolism. The ground on which snakes spend most of their lives in the wild, holds temperatures. Even when the night air cools the area above the ground, the ground surface retains much of the heat of the day for several hours after dark. Some nights would be too cool for snakes to hunt, if not for the core body temperature they're able to maintain from contact with the ground. Hence, heating your snake from below is the most natural way to heat snakes in captivity. Did I mention, there are no flimsy filaments to fail in UT heaters? Light bulbs are notorious for needing replacement from all the movement they endure and 60 watts of electricity is much more than the 8-12w a UT heater requires. What if you went on vacation during the winter and the bulb filament failed? Do you use two lights redundently, in case of primary failure. It is extremely rare for UT heaters to fail.

In conclusion, I'd like everyone to remember that many people reading these forums are impressionable and some readers actually react to everything they see here. If you think your way of keeping corns is elemental to your success, that's something you should tell folks about, but it's wise to promote open-mindedness about alternatives. I've always maintained that if you can't afford the basic requirements to keep snakes healthy, do not get one. But having said that, the added expense of thermostats and rheostats is not necessarily crucial, and can sometimes mean the difference between affording and not affording a corn snake. If I thought temperature control devices were a prerequisite to safe corn snake keeping, I'd only sell snakes to people that use them. This is not the case.

Merry Christmas (or any other holiday you practice this time of year) from

Don Soderberg
South Mountain Reptiles
www.cornsnake.NET
 
And even though we love Don and his book we can still agree to disagree, and I am under the personal belief that if his tank surface is reading 138 I can see no way shape or form how that can ever be construed as healthy for the snake.
Ever.
 
And even though we love Don and his book we can still agree to disagree, and I am under the personal belief that if his tank surface is reading 138 I can see no way shape or form how that can ever be construed as healthy for the snake.
Ever.
Why would you have a temp of 138? the temp on the top of the bedding is all that counts with corns.
John
 
He has a temp of 138 under his bedding,and I know Don says they don't burrow, but for some crazy reason me and almost everyone else has seen our snakes burrow down to the glass. :shrugs:
 
He doesn't and if you read Kathy Loves reply on the other thread they don't use UTH, their rooms are heated to the 80's. Ithink what they were saying is that the thousands of 1st time corn buyers are using UTH with no thermostat and have never called to say their corn cooked. I have 40+ Critter cages (I don't know when to stop) with UTH and the temp in the hides is what counts. Once I got the temps correct in the warm and cool hides my corns didn't burrow anymore. Corns will not cook themselves unlike Balls. I understand what you are saying but even when my corns use to burrow I would find them just off the UTH on the bottom. They seem to know what they want.
 
...yes he does, the topic creator stated that he has a tempature of 138 on the glass,that's what concerned me....
 
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