Help with Uroplatus! Worried about my leaf tailed geckos

[Kanchii]

Hey guys. Know this is a cornsnake forum but none of the other forums I'm a member of are nearly as active as you guys so if you've got any advice I'd love to hear it... Got this pair of Giant Leaftails in from LLL on April 15th. Yes, wild caught unfortunately. When they arrived they were calm, walking around and tasting their new environment, drinking water misted on them and both caught crickets on their own and ate. But the male seems to be starting to deteriorate.

I had read they didn't need UVB, but decided it couldn't hurt and they've had it on during day light hours starting three days ago, its a ReptiGlo 5.0 tropical UVB light. There is a 75 watt night glow heat light on one side of the cage 24/7 for heating. They are currently in a 20 gallon tank (a 24"long x 18"deep x 36"tall is on the way but could be several weeks until its here because it got back ordered, very untimely...) and the humidity we've been trying to keep as close to 75% as possible but it definitely dips down in between our two to three times daily mistings... The males eyes looked a bit sunken in afew days a go which is what first made me look closer. He seems to be a bit weaker than when he arrived, and doesn't seem to eat on his own. If we hold him with his arms down, he opens his mouth in a display and we're able to drop some crickets and wax worms (which he doesn't seem to like as much?) into his mouth as well as some water. Today he doesnt seem to be even trying to drink the water misted on him. But at least he still swallows what we put in his mouth.

The female seems to be doing a lot better but I can't help but worry for her too. Her tail was a bit curled today, and his has been too the last several days. When he first came in it was held perfectly flat. What does this mean? Dehydration?

I work at a pet store, and we've started getting in a new kind of cricket called "super" crickets. They are larger, softer shelled, and higher protein. Since they seem to not care much for the wax worms, this should be great I think. I also heard they do best on roaches but no one in the area uses them, and I think these new kind of crickets will be practically the same as them, which is good news.

Any other tips? I just snapped a couple new pictures of them. How do they look to you as far as weight, tails, etc? Their spines seem to show a bit, as if the flesh over the vertebrae were rubbed a bit in shipping. I really want them to make it, not just because they were my big birthday present, but because they are one of the coolest and most tame sweet reptiles I've ever gotten to see in person. I absolutely adore them... Thank you for your time.

Madisynn

 

[ShenziSixaxis]

Generally, people don't buy or recommend LLL Reptiles, because their animals are usually wild caught and sickly. I bit my tongue when you posted that you got these guys about that. I really hope you figure something out. These guys a pretty cool from everything I've read. Make sure you email LLL.

Also, the crickets are probably just a different species. Can you find a picture or take some of them?

 

[Kanchii]

I'll ask tomorrow if they know what the species name of these new crickets are, and try to take a pic of them for you guys.

Good to know about LLL... Dang. I hope they make it. Doing everything I can.

 

[Calift]

No advice ... only kind thoughts being sent your way. I really hope they are okay!!

There are many reasons I think think buying W/C is unethical and irresponsible

 

[Hypancistrus]

Try Reptaid. Chip Bridges (El Rojo) reccomended it to us with our tortoise, Lucy, who was struggling with parasite issues. It seems to work well. She has improved somewhat since we began using it.

Anyway you can close off part of the screen top to keep more humidity in? Or arrange a misting system or fogger to increase latent humidity?

 

[Floof]

I work in a pet store, as well, and the owner, who has kept and bred Uroplatus in the past, has spoken highly of his success using silkworms as the main feeder source. Makes sense--they're GREAT feeders. I love the crap out of them for my beardies. So you may give those a shot? Hornworms are pretty good, too, and seem to be especially enticing.

Have you thought about getting fecals on them since they're WC?

Anyway, that's literally all I know about these geckos... (From your descriptions, though, I can see why my boss says they're even more addicting than Rhacodactylus!) GOOD LUCK! I hope they both pull through for you!!!

 

[ShenziSixaxis]

Silkworms seem to be an all pros feeder, but still hard to find.

Horn worms are expensive and get HUGE. But are many expensive.

 

[Floof]

Silkworms seem to be an all pros feeder, but still hard to find.

Not so much hard to find as just pricey. I know of two good dealers off the top of my head that supply Silkworms. One is Mulberry Farms (http://mulberryfarms.com/), who I've ordered from several times and been happy with, and another is Coastal Silkworms (http://www.coastalsilkworms.com/) who I've heard good things about.

As for Hornworms, yes, they are, unfortunately, expensive... If not for that, I'd get them more often--my little male beardie goes nuts for them!

The reason I suggested the hornworms, though, is because she mentioned issues with her male not being interested in eating. I've had to deal with my beardie boy refusing to eat a week or two at a time once or twice (turned out to be parasites), where he would refuse to eat literally anything (even crix and supers!)... Except hornworms.

 

[DanaP]

I don't have advice, but I really hope they pull through for you

 

[jessicalb]

They are incredibly cute and wonderful. I have no experience with them but I wish you the best of luck with them!

 

[ShenziSixaxis]

FOUND SOMETHING.

QUICK TIP: Make sure you have a hydrometer in the cage so you know exactly what the humidity is in the cage. Another thing you can look at is the tail of the gecko. If the tail is smooth and flat, the gecko is hydrated. If the tail begins to shrivel and curl like a dried leaf, it needs more humidity. A quick fix to this is a humid shower. Steam up your bathroom and give the gecko 20 minutes, 2 or 3 times a day until the tail is looking better. You can also use a plastic syringe to drip water onto the gecko's mouth to force it to lap up the water. Humidity is the most essential part to keeping these geckos.

Found it here! Maybe this is your problem?

 

[desertanimal]

There are many reasons I think think buying W/C is unethical and irresponsible

+1 As a researcher who works in Madagascar, this sort of thing breaks my heart.

I recognize the need for experienced herpetoculturists to have access to WC animals in order to get them established in herpetoculture. I recognize that. It ultimately protects wild stocks.

But in Madagascar's current political climate, where poaching and illegal logging is running rampant, completely uncontrolled by what little "government" there is (after the coup in March of 2009, park workers were not receiving their paychecks from the National administration, and National parks were starting to run entirely on funds generated locally from researcher and tourist camp fees--myself and a colleague of mine entirely funded the salaries of the local park staff from April of 2009 until May of 2010 because no money came down to pay park salaries after the coup d'etat, and since then, when my colleague left our site, who knows if people have been paid . . .) . . . this sort of thing just breaks my heart.

 

[desertanimal]

Join geckosunlimited.com

They should be able to help you.

Hopefully.

 

[desertanimal]

Oh I see. You already did. You posted the same "Introducing my new Uroplatus" thread over there as username SynnAndVenice, and the gecko people promptly jumped alllllll over you for not having them in an appropriate set-up, referred you to care sheets, stated that your planned set-up isn't even appropriate for them, etc. Eight replies, in fact, the very same day you posted your thread! Inactive, you say? And I see that you didn't post for help there at all, but only posted here for help, here where we don't know enough to either criticize you or actually help you . . .

Breaks my heart right to pieces for those animals who were apparently pretty happy where they were in their native land . . . :crying:

 

[desertanimal]

Good to know about LLL... Dang. I hope they make it. Doing everything I can.

You can see that when I get to feeling a little passionate about something, I start paying close attention to what people write. Because here, of course, you mean everything but posting a help query on the gecko board where you've already been chastised for your Uroplatus set-up. Everything but that, of course.

Everything but your four fastest ships, you mean . . .

 

[ShenziSixaxis]

IMO if I had gotten those responses on Geckos Unlimited and seen what had started, I wouldn't have posted there again!

 

[desertanimal]

I should hope you would have researched the care and keeping of such delicate, WC animals from-a-country-where-no-wildlife-protections-are-currently-effectively-in-place-or-have-been-for-about-two-years before buying them. But if you didn't, I'd hope you had the chutzpah to take your licks, admit to your mistakes, and go back to the people who could actually help your animals because that would be best for the animals you removed from their natural environment, even though it might hurt your pride a little.

 

[ShenziSixaxis]

Someone's ignorance/mistakes don't give others the right to just about insult them and/or start fights about importation. The OP could have not asked for help and instead stayed quiet.

From my understanding, they were a gift, not something that was planned for greatly in advance.

 

[desertanimal]

The OP has not actually asked for help where real help is to be had.

Here is the sequence of events. The OP posted a thread here and on geckosunlimited.com, introducing her geckos to people not in the know and people in the know about geckos, respectively. People not in the know responded with, "Cool! Neato! Awesome!" And why shouldn't they? They are cool and neat and awesome animals. Indeed. In contrast, people in the know about geckos replied critically, saying that neither her current nor planned set-up was appropriate for this delicate, WC species. Some of them also criticized her for too much handling of her new, WC animals. (We here at CS.com regularly caution against handling of new, not at all delicate, CB cornsnakes, not to mention new, delicate, WC geckos.) There was a "fight" among people in the know about importation. (There hasn't been one here yet--I've been the only one opining about it all night, and it's been completely one-sided, which does not a fight make. Wait 'till the morning. Maybe there'll be one then. Who knows. But in any case you must be referring to what happened there, not here. And, the fight there wasn't really about importation so much as about how it is helpful or not helpful to respond to people who don't know how to care for their geckos. I don't have to worry about the ethics of that here, because as I mentioned above, two days have shown that we, here, don't know the care of these geckos from a hole in the wall, so scaring her away from here is not risking scaring her away from good advice, of which she's had none.) The OP's male gecko began to deteriorate. She then posted a thread here, but not thereasking for help, claiming to be doing "everything" she could for them. Funnily, "everything" did not include a post asking for help from the people in the know about geckos. Just here, to the people in the know about cornsnakes. I am calling BS on her claim of doing "everything [she] can" for them.

If she actually wants to do "everything [she] can," she knows where to go to ask what that is.

The OP effectively DID "stay quiet," from the animals' perspective, because she asked for help here two days ago and it's pretty clear that no one knows what to do for those geckos (me included), which is completely unsurprising, this being a cornsnake board and not a gecko board.

1) She dissembled about the other, more appropriate boards not being sufficiently active. They are plenty active. She simply appears not to have liked what they had to say, despite the fact that what they had to say, regardless of how they said it, was in the best interest of the geckos that she is now having trouble with.

2) She dissembled about doing everything she can for the animals. She might be able to do a good bit more for the animals--she doesn't know and neither do we--it would just involve going back for another potential "whooping" from the gecko people in order to find out what it is.

I have a lot of patience for a lot of things. But I have no patience for dishonesty. I have less than no patience for dishonesty when the particular dishonesty people are perpetrating is to claim that they are doing everything they can for innocent animals when, in fact, they have, by their actions, endangered them and are, by their actions, deliberately NOT taking the necessary steps to ameliorate that fact.

 

[ShenziSixaxis]

Definitely meant over on GU. The community reminds me of that of B-P.net, only different in some way yet similar.

On the other hand, the immediate problem with the animal/s appears to be humidity. The care sheet I listed at the top of page 2 states that they need 100% humidity, while the OP said she was keeping it at 75% or lower.
Now, is a 55 gallon tank big enough for the pair of geckos? I don't know. A 55 gal tank is pretty freaking big, but I don't think it's tall enough for an arboreal species. I dunno, do they have kits to turn them on their sides like 20g long tanks? :laugh:


I don't remember what I was going to post as well. It's pretty late. :sidestep: