ICE genetics/pictures?

[crazyforcorns]

I have heard the naming of ICE. What is it exactly? I'm assuming related to snows and blizzards.

Does anyone have any pictures?

Thanks
Kathy

 

[cka]

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27322 this thread is a good read, and it will give you some info/pics of the "Ice" corn.

 

[idontknow]

here u go. ice is a mix of lava and anery a http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11065&page=2&pp=10

 

[crazyforcorns]

EXXCELLLENT!! Thank you. I've seen that thread before, but sometimes the information just doesn't hitchya until you're ready for it.

Kathy

 

[Jynx]

This is a male Ice/paradox I obtained from Joe Pierce. He still has one black scale. :crazy02:

Um... how does that make him a paradox? Ice is anery X lava... black is to be expected.

 

[cornmorphs]

lol, well its a nice snake either way.

 

[crazyforcorns]

alrighty then, so when I see 'het' ICE, that means het lava and anery? I have seen het Ice/anery..which confused me.

Thanks
Kathy

 

[Jynx]

Well, the "Ice" term is being thown around for other morphs that include the lava gene as well. I believe Joe is playing with "Ice Lavenders" as the lava X lavander name. So being het Ice could mean just het lava. Ask the seller for specifics on the genetics to clear up any confusion though.

 

[crazyforcorns]

Thanks Jynx,

I saw on a site, Lava het ICE/anery...what does that mean?

Kathy

 

[cornmorphs]

i can see that confussing people.
we havent got that many morphs in the uk yet, theres gonna be mass confussion when this lot his our side.

 

[Serpwidgets]

Thanks Jynx,

I saw on a site, Lava het ICE/anery...what does that mean?

Kathy

That would be the same as amel het snow/anery.

It means it's homozygous for one trait, and het for the second trait, which makes the combo (Ice or Snow) when both genes are combined.

 

[crazyforcorns]

hmm..ok..I think I get it.

I asked the breeder where I got my amel from what she is het for, and she said het for snow. That really confused me..but I suppose she meant, she is het anery.

If I breed my snow to my amel, I should get amels, snows and anery..yes?

I know I'll understand more as I see my own results, but that's 2+ years from now..LOL.

Thanks
Kathy

 

[ecreipeoj]

Warning Crappy Photos!

Um... how does that make him a paradox? Ice is anery X lava... black is to be expected.

I see your point, but the black is where is shouldn’t be, like in the middle of the blotches or smeared across the blotches and borders. It is in the form of black smudges here and there, kind of like they crawled through their nasty. I see this on some of my Lavas as well. The Lavas and Ice really do not have black, but a lavender/gray color in place of the black, so when you see a vivid black area or scales then it stands out. The best example can be on their bellies. They will have grayish checkering as expected and then there is a normal black one that just jumps out at you. Some of the Lavas have some pretty weird belly patterns anyway as in the last photo.

Thanks to the ACR, it seems as if all of the paradox are coming from one of the original male Ice that was produced and he seems to have more remaining black coloration than the other original one. It seems as if there is some variation as to how much black is removed and a leaky gene type situation, where sometimes some normal black pigment leaks by what ever the Lava gene is normally blocking or removing.

When the “Paradox” Ice or Lava are born, the abnormal black pigment is very noticeable, but it seems to fade as they grow up. I have sold almost all of the ones that I labeled as paradox when they were born, so I really don’t know how they will turn out when they are adults, but I suspect it is like Tom said. They will still have areas or scales that are vividly black and are obviously different than the other grayish areas that would be black if the Lava gene was not present. I have some Anerys that have single red scales here and there which is more obvious. The black on the Lavas and Ice are this same type of occurrence.

I have ended up selling most of the “Paradox” because the demand has been so high for Ice or Lavas and the “Paradox” event, seems to fade so much that I haven’t got excited about them. If there ever is some produced that keep a great deal of black, then they would stand out like the Paradox Amels do, although I haven’t seen anything but photos of hatchling Amel Paradox either.

Here are some really crappy photos to illustrate what we are seeing. It is just dark normal looking black pigment when a grayish color is expected. For some unknown reason, I seem to see more blackish pigment showing up in the Ice than the Lavas, which it seems like should be the complete opposite. In many of the Ice, the grayish color darkens as they grow, but in the Lavas it seems to turn more lavenderish in color.

 

[Serpwidgets]

hmm..ok..I think I get it.

I asked the breeder where I got my amel from what she is het for, and she said het for snow. That really confused me..but I suppose she meant, she is het anery.

If I breed my snow to my amel, I should get amels, snows and anery..yes?

I know I'll understand more as I see my own results, but that's 2+ years from now..LOL.

Thanks
Kathy

Ya, just think of it as an abbreviation:
Amel het for (anery, which combined with amel creates) snow.

If you breed a snow to an amel het snow you'll get amels and snows, no plain anerys. (See, this is where saying "het snow" is easier, hehe. )

 

[crazyforcorns]

no anery? both are het for anery aren't they?

probably the most simplest of genetics when it comes to these snakes..and I still don't get it..LOL...

I'll just practice with your book...

Thanks
Kathy

 

[Serpwidgets]

Since both parents are amelanistic, the offspring will all be amelanistic. So any offspring that are homozygous anery will not be "plain anerys" (as in black and brown) but they'll be snows. :santa:

 

[abell82]

Why is it called an Ice? Isn't Lava a form of Hypo? I mean from the pic it looks more like a ghost than a snow. Why would you call an Anery x hypo something synonymous with an Anery x Amel?

 

[ecreipeoj]

Why is it called an Ice? Isn't Lava a form of Hypo? I mean from the pic it looks more like a ghost than a snow. Why would you call an Anery x hypo something synonymous with an Anery x Amel?

I see your point. They do resemble Ghosts and not Snows, but the problem we have is that there are now five different types of hypomelanistic Corns. Lavas are not a form of “Hypo” Corn, but a hypomelanistic type Corn, that is genetically different than a Hypo Corn or any other hypomelanistic Corn. If you breed a Lava X Hypo you will get Normals double het for Lava and Hypo. A Ghost Corn is homo for Anery A and Hypo A. Originally, I called the Ice Corns, Ice “Ghosts”, because I was thinking like you. They look like a Ghost. Some people automatically thought they were homo for Anery A, Hypo A and Lava, when they were actually only homo for Anery A and Lava. I was thinking more general, like you are, that they belonged to a group of Corns that looked like “ghosts“ or had a “ghost“ look to them.

This same type of situation came up with Charcoal Ghost. It seemed very fitting in the beginning, but many people thought they were homo for Anery A & B and Hypo A, when they were only homo for Anery B and Hypo A. They seem to be on their way to being called Phantoms, which will eliminate the confusion and stay with a “ghost” type theme. Blizzards stayed with the theme started with Snows, but we didn’t use “Snow” because it already has meaning. Basically, when we combine any of the Anery Group with any of the Hypo Group, we are going to get a “ghost” type Corn, but they will all need unique names to link to their genetics. We have all put Ghost in our Thesaurus and then ran searches on the names that came up on Ghost too. There is a limited number of names that we could relate to ghost, but many of them just sound BAD.

It has become clear in the name game, that when a name such as Ghost or Snow is used instead of the genetic names, that in time their meaning gets set in stone. A Ghost is homo for Anery A and Hypo A, and a Snow is homo for Anery A and Amel. If you attach these names to any other name, they carry with them the corresponding genetic meanings as well, such as a Snow Blood or Ghost Blood. We automatically know the genetic make up of these Corns. Snow Bloods seem to be on their way to being called Avalanche which will make you happy, but I haven‘t heard any suggestions for Ghost Bloods. When we get into the realm of triple homo names, it gets more difficult and it is a fairly new concept. “Poltergeist” Corns would work for Ghost Bloods. I think most people think it is too long. Short and simple is the key to new names, but in time we may have to try new approaches. Ghost Bloods actually works just fine and they are homo for Anery A and Hypo A. Some people got hung up on the fact that Snow Bloods where not "red", so a quick Common Name was tried and since is is perfect, it will fly. The same could be said of Ghost Blood, but for some reason, there hasn't been any problem with them not being "red". To me, "Blood" has genetic meaning that is set in stone along with its original meaning of solid dark red color.

Where did I get the name of Ice out of Lavas you ask. Well, it is opposite for one. The Anery A gene “iced” out the hot Lava color. It is short and simple, and I happened to come across a photo of an Alaskan Cruise ad with a glacier in the background at sunset, that was pink and blue. Ice can be extremely pink and have blue on their heads. “Glacier” Corns and “Blue Ice” Corns was considered, but you still wouldn‘t have liked them, because they are more in line the Snow or Blizzard theme. It is actually hard to say why certain names get used and finally accepted, but Ice is and it has immediate meaning. I am considering Diamond Corns for Anery B, Lavas. It is opposite of Charcoal and they look like raw diamonds. I was considering Ice Lavenders for Lava Lavenders, (The iced out theme that would link to Lava, but with a different Anery type gene) but many people immediately thought they were homo for Anery A, so that just will not work. Ice means homo for Anery A and Lava and it is set in stone.

 

[Serpwidgets]

... and “Blue Ice” Corns was considered, but you still wouldn‘t have liked them, because they are more in line the Snow or Blizzard theme.

LOL, plus the fact that many people associate "blue ice" with toilet waste falling from airplanes. :grin01:

 

[abell82]

I see your point. They do resemble Ghosts and not Snows, but the problem we have is that there are now five different types of hypomelanistic Corns. Lavas are not a form of “Hypo” Corn, but a hypomelanistic type Corn, that is genetically different than a Hypo Corn or any other hypomelanistic Corn. If you breed a Lava X Hypo you will get Normals double het for Lava and Hypo. A Ghost Corn is homo for Anery A and Hypo A. Originally, I called the Ice Corns, Ice “Ghosts”, because I was thinking like you. They look like a Ghost. Some people automatically thought they were homo for Anery A, Hypo A and Lava, when they were actually only homo for Anery A and Lava. I was thinking more general, like you are, that they belonged to a group of Corns that looked like “ghosts“ or had a “ghost“ look to them.

This same type of situation came up with Charcoal Ghost. It seemed very fitting in the beginning, but many people thought they were homo for Anery A & B and Hypo A, when they were only homo for Anery B and Hypo A. They seem to be on their way to being called Phantoms, which will eliminate the confusion and stay with a “ghost” type theme. Blizzards stayed with the theme started with Snows, but we didn’t use “Snow” because it already has meaning. Basically, when we combine any of the Anery Group with any of the Hypo Group, we are going to get a “ghost” type Corn, but they will all need unique names to link to their genetics. We have all put Ghost in our Thesaurus and then ran searches on the names that came up on Ghost too. There is a limited number of names that we could relate to ghost, but many of them just sound BAD.

It has become clear in the name game, that when a name such as Ghost or Snow is used instead of the genetic names, that in time their meaning gets set in stone. A Ghost is homo for Anery A and Hypo A, and a Snow is homo for Anery A and Amel. If you attach these names to any other name, they carry with them the corresponding genetic meanings as well, such as a Snow Blood or Ghost Blood. We automatically know the genetic make up of these Corns. Snow Bloods seem to be on their way to being called Avalanche which will make you happy, but I haven‘t heard any suggestions for Ghost Bloods. When we get into the realm of triple homo names, it gets more difficult and it is a fairly new concept. “Poltergeist” Corns would work for Ghost Bloods. I think most people think it is too long. Short and simple is the key to new names, but in time we may have to try new approaches. Ghost Bloods actually works just fine and they are homo for Anery A and Hypo A. Some people got hung up on the fact that Snow Bloods where not "red", so a quick Common Name was tried and since is is perfect, it will fly. The same could be said of Ghost Blood, but for some reason, there hasn't been any problem with them not being "red". To me, "Blood" has genetic meaning that is set in stone along with its original meaning of solid dark red color.

Where did I get the name of Ice out of Lavas you ask. Well, it is opposite for one. The Anery A gene “iced” out the hot Lava color. It is short and simple, and I happened to come across a photo of an Alaskan Cruise ad with a glacier in the background at sunset, that was pink and blue. Ice can be extremely pink and have blue on their heads. “Glacier” Corns and “Blue Ice” Corns was considered, but you still wouldn‘t have liked them, because they are more in line the Snow or Blizzard theme. It is actually hard to say why certain names get used and finally accepted, but Ice is and it has immediate meaning. I am considering Diamond Corns for Anery B, Lavas. It is opposite of Charcoal and they look like raw diamonds. I was considering Ice Lavenders for Lava Lavenders, (The iced out theme that would link to Lava, but with a different Anery type gene) but many people immediately thought they were homo for Anery A, so that just will not work. Ice means homo for Anery A and Lava and it is set in stone.

Thanks for clearing that up for me I was wondering if people had resorted to naming morphs after there favorite drug or what :shrugs: You see Ice is also a form of Crystal Meth. Something that seems to be running RAMPANT across the U.S. right now. And for your information I actually do like Glacier Corn, it is much better than a line of corns named after a drug that keeps people up for days. I could understand the terminallogy if they were also homo amel but I would still think the name in bad taste.