-
Hello!
Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.
Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....
Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.
Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.
Kisatchie Corn Snake Pics
- Thread starter kellum
- Start date
Clint Boyer
'Former' Snake slave
My opinion.......
I don't think they are a cross, so to speak. I think they are more of a natural variation of guttata that developed over a long period of time, much like the Keys corns. I have no experience with the ranges or natural history of the areas that the Kisatchies inhabit but draw my conclusions from the writings of others that have that expertise.
With that being said, there may be an evolutionary link in the guttata line that branches off of the limb that corns and Great plains rats share. Not a cross so much, but more of a link between the two.
Ronda of Northwest herps has some pics on kingsnake.com's photo gallery of Kisatchies.
I don't think they are a cross, so to speak. I think they are more of a natural variation of guttata that developed over a long period of time, much like the Keys corns. I have no experience with the ranges or natural history of the areas that the Kisatchies inhabit but draw my conclusions from the writings of others that have that expertise.
With that being said, there may be an evolutionary link in the guttata line that branches off of the limb that corns and Great plains rats share. Not a cross so much, but more of a link between the two.
Ronda of Northwest herps has some pics on kingsnake.com's photo gallery of Kisatchies.
It's kistachie not kisatchie by the way. I thought kistachies were a naturally occuring color morph specifically found in Louisiana. I believe kistachie is an Louisiana "indian"/native american word, possibly a cajun word, although I don't know what it means. My father used to belong to the Kistachie Cajuns hunting/fishing club, so maybe it is cajun. Time to do some history research. Nonetheless, the morph is as far as I know a dark morph found only here. Probably more specifically to the Kistachie National Forest.
Just my two cents.
Peter
Just my two cents.
Peter
Clint Boyer
'Former' Snake slave
I did a search......
I didn't think that Kisatchie was wrong, is there another place called Kistachie?
Here's a link
http://www.user.fast.net/~rnb/knf.html
I didn't think that Kisatchie was wrong, is there another place called Kistachie?
Here's a link
http://www.user.fast.net/~rnb/knf.html
It is spelled incorrectly on that site. It is Kistachie. Do a web search on Kistachie and you'll find a lot of sites about the national forest. I've lived in Louisiana all my life.
http://www.scenicpath.com/places/LA/alexandria.cfm
http://www.scenicpath.com/places/LA/alexandria.cfm
Clint Boyer
'Former' Snake slave
It appears there are both....
Here's one for a National forest:
http://www.southernregion.fs.fed.us/kisatchie/
Beats me, it looks like it's spelled both ways depending on where you look.
Here's one for a National forest:
http://www.southernregion.fs.fed.us/kisatchie/
Beats me, it looks like it's spelled both ways depending on where you look.
Last edited:
I always thought it was Kisatchie since that's how it's spelled on cornsnake.net and that's the only place I've ever seen them advertised.
Anyway, I once posted a thread asking if anyone had pictures of Kisatchies and the only response I got was to go look at the one on cornsnake.net.
I did find a couple on kingsnake.com though.
Anyway, I once posted a thread asking if anyone had pictures of Kisatchies and the only response I got was to go look at the one on cornsnake.net.
I did find a couple on kingsnake.com though.
Clint Boyer
'Former' Snake slave
Don't get me wrong.........
I'm not implying that you're wrong, I was just showing what I had found.
It seems to work either way. When I did a search for Kistachie on Google, it listed a bunch of stuff then at the bottom asked if I meant to search for Kisatchie. Only guess I can make is that it has been misspelled so often that it is accepted either way.
I'd love to see a pic of the sign entering the National forest!
Hey! Look what I found!
I'm not implying that you're wrong, I was just showing what I had found.
It seems to work either way. When I did a search for Kistachie on Google, it listed a bunch of stuff then at the bottom asked if I meant to search for Kisatchie. Only guess I can make is that it has been misspelled so often that it is accepted either way.
I'd love to see a pic of the sign entering the National forest!
Hey! Look what I found!
Last edited:
Heh, ok you win! I was thinking the same thing. Figures people from around here have said it wrong all my life! I feel so confused!!! LOL Even people who make websites for Louisiana spell it wrong. Like on the one I posted the URL for.
Still can't find any pics. Every place I've found a pic of one is a copy of the one on cornsnake.net. I did find something that said that kisatchie is indian for "snake." LOL
Still can't find any pics. Every place I've found a pic of one is a copy of the one on cornsnake.net. I did find something that said that kisatchie is indian for "snake." LOL
Clint Boyer
'Former' Snake slave
Didn't mean to pick on you.....
It was very confusing and I like to get to the bottom of things.
Here's a link to Ronda's pics on kingsnake.com:
http://gallery.kingsnake.com/index.pl?thumb=1&stype=2&si=Ronda&perpage=12&sort=1&cat=512&user=
It was very confusing and I like to get to the bottom of things.
Here's a link to Ronda's pics on kingsnake.com:
http://gallery.kingsnake.com/index.pl?thumb=1&stype=2&si=Ronda&perpage=12&sort=1&cat=512&user=
Hehe, it was all in fun. I like to get to the bottom of things as well and being stubborn and standing my ground generally pushes people to do what it takes to disprove what I'm saying. We both win, cuz now we are informed. Actually, everyone does. Now we can send nasty emails to all the sites that have it spelled wrong!
Didn't really think about it before now, but it might be worthwhile to acquire a pair or trio. They are pretty snakes and with all the light colored morphs out there something dark could go over well. Is it just me or are there way more light morphs than dark?
Didn't really think about it before now, but it might be worthwhile to acquire a pair or trio. They are pretty snakes and with all the light colored morphs out there something dark could go over well. Is it just me or are there way more light morphs than dark?
Last edited:
kenalotia
New member
Funny... I followed Clint's link to see the pics of Kisatchie (or Kistachie?) corns, and they both looked a lot like normal corns. The first one didn't look very dark at all. The second one was darker, but still looked pretty normal. Is there a big difference between them and normals that just wasn't apparent in these pics? (Or maybe I just wasn't noticing it?)
Serpwidgets
New member
kellum said:
I have no opinion on this either way because I know little to nothing about Emoryi, or what crosses would look like. :shrugs:
kisatchie/kistachie
i'm betting that a goodly percentage of the snakes in south carolina look like what rich or kathy love or (etc.) sell as okeetees. what everyone now considers an okeetee is just a red and orange corn with deep black borders. some of these "okeetees" probably on the market aren't even from south carolina anymore. (some are, some aren't) okeetees, i think, have just become an idealized snake regardless of locality. on the other hand some "okeetees" of pure south carolina blood are missing the very traits that make them an "okeetee". now kisatchies, being a locality specific animal, are probably going down the same road that okeetees have already traveled; thus the variability in kistachies.
anyone see any merit in this argument???? ---jim
i'm betting that a goodly percentage of the snakes in south carolina look like what rich or kathy love or (etc.) sell as okeetees. what everyone now considers an okeetee is just a red and orange corn with deep black borders. some of these "okeetees" probably on the market aren't even from south carolina anymore. (some are, some aren't) okeetees, i think, have just become an idealized snake regardless of locality. on the other hand some "okeetees" of pure south carolina blood are missing the very traits that make them an "okeetee". now kisatchies, being a locality specific animal, are probably going down the same road that okeetees have already traveled; thus the variability in kistachies.
anyone see any merit in this argument????
---jimYou are probably right Jim, although the thought of that is quite disappointing considering the differences between the pic on cornsnake.net and the pics that Ronda posted.
If the brown saddles on a kisatchie was developed into a deep rich mahoganey or maroon while retaining the darker coloration in the pattern, would it look like some other morph? How about those same colors in a motley or striped?
I'm picturing a dark greyish-black background with a contrasting pattern of mahoganey or maroon.
Peter
If the brown saddles on a kisatchie was developed into a deep rich mahoganey or maroon while retaining the darker coloration in the pattern, would it look like some other morph? How about those same colors in a motley or striped?
I'm picturing a dark greyish-black background with a contrasting pattern of mahoganey or maroon.
Peter
Clint Boyer
'Former' Snake slave
I have a feeling........
That there has not been enough interest in them yet for anyone to be doing any selective breeding just yet.
Those that Ronda posted probably show that there is as much variation in the wild group of Kisatchies that there is with wild caught snakes from the Okeetee area.
It sounds to me like the Kisatchies may very well go the way of the Okeetees, being bred for a certain look and then being called Kisatchie for that look. That would certainly be possible.
That there has not been enough interest in them yet for anyone to be doing any selective breeding just yet.
Those that Ronda posted probably show that there is as much variation in the wild group of Kisatchies that there is with wild caught snakes from the Okeetee area.
It sounds to me like the Kisatchies may very well go the way of the Okeetees, being bred for a certain look and then being called Kisatchie for that look. That would certainly be possible.
About regional names/snakes
Jim- I agree.
To me it is of no real relevance if a snake of a certain phase came from the region for which it was named. Obviously a set of genetic traits cause an animal to have a certian look. If the original Amel Dr. Bechtel bred had been named for the region of North Carolina it was caught in would people dispute its amelanisim? The problem is that a lot snakes from the Okeetee region don't look "Okeetee" just as a lot from the Kisatchie region dont look "Kisatchie". I have seen Jasper Co. corns that were as normal and "dirty" as any in the wild. The name is for the "Look" of the snake- that look created by its genetics. And as long as breeders breed to enhace or preserve the look I see no problem with marketing them under the name.
It will be a shame if breeders just start labeling dark snakes as Kisatchies just to make a few more bucks.
Jim- I agree.
To me it is of no real relevance if a snake of a certain phase came from the region for which it was named. Obviously a set of genetic traits cause an animal to have a certian look. If the original Amel Dr. Bechtel bred had been named for the region of North Carolina it was caught in would people dispute its amelanisim? The problem is that a lot snakes from the Okeetee region don't look "Okeetee" just as a lot from the Kisatchie region dont look "Kisatchie". I have seen Jasper Co. corns that were as normal and "dirty" as any in the wild. The name is for the "Look" of the snake- that look created by its genetics. And as long as breeders breed to enhace or preserve the look I see no problem with marketing them under the name.
It will be a shame if breeders just start labeling dark snakes as Kisatchies just to make a few more bucks.