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Some new corns...

Josua

Josua

Colubrids rule
I picked up some new corns yesterday from Freek and Hanneke Gillissen.
Here are some pics of them:

1.1 Charcoal het. bloodred possible het. cream:
Charcoal_1.jpg

Charcoal_3.jpg


1.1 Bloodred het. charcoal possible het. cream:
Bloodred_1.jpg

Bloodred_2.jpg

bloodred_zijkant.jpg


1.1 Butter motley (No het's for a change ;-) )
Butter_motley_2.jpg

Butter_motley_1.jpg
 
Nice pick-ups. Congrats. :cheers:

But... how can something be het for creamsicle? Either it has emoryi blood, or it doesn't. I would think that labeling them as such could result in improper hybrid labeling down the line. It may be better to use the "rootbeer" term somewhere before any het listings, and have the possible het listed as amel (e.g. Charcoal Rootbeer het Bloodred poss. het amel). :shrugs:
 
Roy Munson said:
But... how can something be het for creamsicle? Either it has emoryi blood, or it doesn't.
Click to expand...
I get your point.
There is emory blood in this "line". I also have a creamblood (= homo creamsicle + bloodred), maybe from the same line.
Techniccly (spelling?) they are rootbeers het. amel because of the emory blood.
 
Josua said:
I get your point.
There is emory blood in this "line". I also have a creamblood (= homo creamsicle + bloodred), maybe from the same line.
Techniccly (spelling?) they are rootbeers het. amel because of the emory blood.
Click to expand...


Did you buy the Cream Blood from Herman van Hellum. I'm pretty sure these animals came from Herman too and if not, the parents do...
 
Josua said:
I get your point.
There is emory blood in this "line". I also have a creamblood (= homo creamsicle + bloodred), maybe from the same line.
Techniccly (spelling?) they are rootbeers het. amel because of the emory blood.
Click to expand...


You can't have a snake that is 'homo creamsicle'. Creamsicle is not a recessive gene, it is a name used for a snake that is a hybrid of an emory rat and a corn.

Perhaps you might like to contact the person who sold them to you to clear them up on their genetics/hybrid terminology so that it doesn't get even further screwed up in the future??
 
BassieMK1 said:
Did you buy the Cream Blood from Herman van Hellum. I'm pretty sure these animals came from Herman too and if not, the parents do...
Click to expand...
Yes, I did get the creamblood from Herman van Hellum.
The "cream het's" were bred by Freek en Hanneke. I'm not sure if they got the parents from Herman, but it's a good chanche they did.
 
Josua said:
Yes, I did get the creamblood from Herman van Hellum.
The "cream het's" were bred by Freek en Hanneke. I'm not sure if they got the parents from Herman, but it's a good chanche they did.
Click to expand...


I'm pretty sure of that because I know Herman bred a Creamsicle to a Pewter in 2003 and held back one couple to breed them back together and I think that Freek and Hanneke bought them too.
I saw the Cream Bloods in Houten and they looked really nice but since Creamsicles are seen as Hybrids instead of Intergrades i lost my interest in them... But they are very beautiful, those Cream Bloods!!!
 
princess said:
Perhaps you might like to contact the person who sold them to you to clear them up on their genetics/hybrid terminology so that it doesn't get even further screwed up in the future??
Click to expand...
I typed it like that, just to let people know what a cream blood is.
I understand what a creamblood is, and I will not lie to anybody about them of their offspring.
 
Josua said:
I typed it like that, just to let people know what a cream blood is.
Click to expand...


The problem with your reasoning there is you say you just typed it like that to 'let people know what it is' but you described smething that is non-existant.

There is nothing such as 'het creamsicle' and if you are in fact trying to simplify it to help people who don't understand genetics, then all you are doing is confusing a lot of people who would be better off being told the truth/reality rather than something false.
 
I dont see a problem with how he put it; people who know about creamsickles will know when he says het for cream means its het amel and has emory blood in it. Rootbeer I have always though was the normal type with emory blood in it, and there is no name for a charcoal with emory. At least it makes more sense then saying its a rootbeer het amel. Its kind of like the motley het stripe thing.
 
DaemoNox said:
I dont see a problem with how he put it; people who know about creamsickles will know when he says het for cream means its het amel and has emory blood in it. Rootbeer I have always though was the normal type with emory blood in it, and there is no name for a charcoal with emory. At least it makes more sense then saying its a rootbeer het amel. Its kind of like the motley het stripe thing.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but not every potential buyer knows about creamsicle, and there are many people out there who don't give a passing thought to the hets, say nothing about possible hets. So he sells his Bloodred het Charcoal poss. het Creamsicle to Joe Blow, who doesn't care about hets or possible hets, and now Joe Blow has a bloodred. In a couple of years Joe Blow buys another bloodred to pair up with his bloodred, and the offspring are sold as bloodreds.

I understand that there is no trade name for a charcoal corn x emoryi hybrid, but I'd rather see the phenotype part of the labeling include some emoryi hybrid term than not. And this is coming from a guy who isn't nearly as concerned with the corn x emoryi hybrid issue as some out there...
 
Even if you call it a rootbeer charcoal your still taking the same chance; if they dont know about creams then they definatly wont know about rootbeers either. Of course the best thing to do would be if he sells them or their offspring to flat out say theyre not pure corns.
 
I don't think that it is better to let people go on using wrong terms just because they may be understandable. There is no such thing like het. or hom. Creamsicle. There is also nothing more to say I think.

No matter how often u type u with everyone knowing that u mean you, it won't be the correct way to spell u.
 
DaemoNox said:
Even if you call it a rootbeer charcoal your still taking the same chance; if they dont know about creams then they definatly wont know about rootbeers either. Of course the best thing to do would be if he sells them or their offspring to flat out say theyre not pure corns.
Click to expand...

I don't believe that calling something a rootbeer charcoal poss het amel presents the same chance of misinformation as calling something a charcoal poss het cream. As Menhir states, there's no such thing as het cream, so you've got 100% misinformation right off the bat.

Some random guy may know nothing about rootbeers or creams, but if he buys a rootbeer charcoal, he'll probably end up calling it that. If he buys a charcoal poss het cream, presumably he has a charcoal, and he'll call it that. The guy out there who knows just enough to really screw things up gets the idea that his charcoal poss het cream may or may not be a hybrid, when that is not the case. It IS a hybrid.

I agree with you that the best thing to do would be to communicate the hybrid status directly. But I think that additionally, proper or best possible labeling is essential in order to help ensure that the honest ID is perpetuated when the snake's out of the seller's hands.
 
You do have a point, they may not know what rootbeer or cream means but the rootbeer would stick on longer then the cream would. I still dont think of it being too big of a sin saying a corn with emory blood being het cream instead of het amel, because any amels that are produced should be called creams anyways, to further differentiate them from normal amels.
 
DaemoNox said:
I still dont think of it being too big of a sin saying a corn with emory blood being het cream instead of het amel, because any amels that are produced should be called creams anyways, to further differentiate them from normal amels.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's a big sin either. If they were still considered subspecies of the same species, it would be no worse than calling a caramel het amel a caramel het butter. I know some people are sticklers for the former label, and some for the latter, but I don't really care which one is used. :)

I used to be very concerned about genetic purity in corns. But I had to imagine how much gene exchange has gone on between corns and other closely related species, both in captivity and in the wild. I could go catch one myself in Jasper County, and still not be completely certain it was "pure". After thinking it over, I had to decide not to let it drive me crazy. Of course, if it is a known hybrid, I still really want to know that. ;)
 
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