Some questions about Expo ethics

[simple_minded]

I'm going to my first reptile show this coming saturday at Manchester(All New England Reptile Expo). I've only gotten into snakes recently, so I'm pretty excited, and I'm planning on picking up maybe another corn or a kingsnake(those pictures of MBK's ya'll have been posting are really making me green with envy:crazy02: ) . That being said, I just have a few questions about the event to make it as fun and enjoyable as it can be.

1. What's the best time to make a purchase? Earlier in the show? or later, near closing?

2. Do people bargain at shows? And if they do, what's an approximate amount people usually bargain for? I dont want to offend anyone by suggesting a price that they might think is degrading to the value of their animal.

3. When you're taking pictures of the animals on display, are you supposed to ask for permission from the vendors first? Or do most vendors not care about their animals getting their pictures taken?

Thanks for any comments in advance!

 

[DAND]

I'm going to my first reptile show this coming saturday at Manchester(All New England Reptile Expo). I've only gotten into snakes recently, so I'm pretty excited, and I'm planning on picking up maybe another corn or a kingsnake(those pictures of MBK's ya'll have been posting are really making me green with envy:crazy02: ) . That being said, I just have a few questions about the event to make it as fun and enjoyable as it can be.

You'll be hooked in no time.

1. What's the best time to make a purchase? Earlier in the show? or later, near closing?

Later in the show will sometimes get you a lower price but what you may have seen earlier may not be there anymore. If you really want it remember the saying, "if you snooze you loose'.

2. Do people bargain at shows? And if they do, what's an approximate amount people usually bargain for? I dont want to offend anyone by suggesting a price that they might think is degrading to the value of their animal.

So do some don't. Some will give you a discount for buying quantity. A pair is not quantity but it couldn't hurt to ask.

3. When you're taking pictures of the animals on display, are you supposed to ask for permission from the vendors first? Or do most vendors not care about their animals getting their pictures taken?

I'd suggest asking first.

Thanks for any comments in advance!

You're welcome.

 

[Checkerbelly]

I like going early. You get to see the most selection of snakes. If you're just after the leftovers, go as late as possible and you could end up with some sweet deals.

Be careful though. I've found that if you go within an hour after the show opens, 25% of the vendors won't even be there yet. Or they won't have all of their snakes out on the table yet. Go too late in the morning and you risk being swamped in a mob of people.

Always always always make sure the person you're buying a snake from is reputable. Ask lots of questions. Use your own judgement whether the person is telling the truth. Sometimes you have to go to a few shows and talk to the same people a few times to get to know who's full of BS.

I had a guy tell me a tiny baby mt. king was feeding on f/t pinkies. Next month there he was, with the same king, and it looked like it was about to die from starvation. Hmmmmm.

I also bought a $12 snake from someone. Good deal? No. It had major problems and died shortly after. Not to mention risking diesease/parasite transmission to my other snakes.

I personally don't bargain. It's not how I roll . I figure, if you're paying money to the right person, you're helping the hobby. I don't mind paying more for a quality snake from a quality person.

 

[simple_minded]

Thanks for the replies guys. The show is from 10 to 4. So I think I'll go after lunch and stay until whenever it closes.

How can I tell if a breeder's reputable though? I've looked through the vendors listing and honestly I don't recognize any of the names up there. Should I just go to whichever table seems the crowdyest? :shrugs:

Do people usually ask for reciepts or gurantees for these kinds of purchases? Like a written guarantee that lets me exchange the snake if it doesn't feed in 30 days or dies within a week or something like that?

I got my first snake from petco, and it was kind of an impulsive buy, so I'm not familiar with how this business runs...

 

[Kat]

Different breeders have different policies regarding guarantees and whatnot. If you have questions, it's best to ask.

Some people like to bargain, and some people absolutely hate it. Unless the snake in question is overpriced, or you have only $X in your pocket and the snake you want is a small percentage more than that, my opinion is that bargaining is better off avoided. My least favorite question personally is, "What's the lowest you'll take for that animal?"

-Kat

 

[Checkerbelly]

Don't depend on where the crowd are to tell you who's a good vendor. Crowds will congregate at the low-priced / most variety vendors. These are usually the big-time animal dealers who get all kinds of kooky wild animals in from all over the world. Not saying there's anything wrong with that. At my local show, they are usually the types who treat animals like commodities rather than pets (or living things).

Just judge the character of the person you're buying from. Examples:

Me: "How is this carpet python's temperment?"
Vendor: *blank stare* "It's a carpet python :shrugs: " "Same as any carpet python" *condescending glare*
Me: "Goodbye"

A good vendor would say, the snake is nippy and nervous with handling. Or SOMETHING. If they act all put off about you asking them questions, either they're not wanting to tell the truth, or they don't want your money.

Watch out for people keeping snakes together in one cage, or deli cup. That just means that they have no interest in keeping the animals quarantined and keeping disease out. The lady I bought the $12 snake from was swapping snakes in and out of deli cups like crazy. (that snake was diseased).

If you get talking to a vendor and they can tell you all about the snake you're interested in, and have a printed caresheet for you, and offer their phone number/email address, they're probably OK.

If you talk to someone and they're just another hobbiest with some snakes to get rid of and you strike up a conversation and they seem knowledgeable, they're probably OK.

I bought my first snake at my first reptile show. I was overwhelmed and didn't know who to trust. I ended up buying him from a 12 year-old girl breeds her two pet snakes and had feeding/shedding records for every baby.

I dunno, you'll just know when you get there

 

[gwb8568]

1. What's the best time to make a purchase? Earlier in the show? or later, near closing?

2. Do people bargain at shows? And if they do, what's an approximate amount people usually bargain for? I dont want to offend anyone by suggesting a price that they might think is degrading to the value of their animal.

3. When you're taking pictures of the animals on display, are you supposed to ask for permission from the vendors first? Or do most vendors not care about their animals getting their pictures taken?

Thanks for any comments in advance!

DAND pretty much covered it......but here is a little more.

1. if you are looking to save money, then 95% of the time it will be on sunday within 1-2 hours of being over. some vendors will leave even earlier than the stopping time if they have not done well. if you are looking for the best product available, then obviously you need to be there when the doors open on saturday morning.

2. yes and no...........the best way to not affend anyone is to know your products. same way as if you were going in to buy a bike, camcorder, etc. it will depend on the vendor (brand name), quantity (supply and demand) and the overall expo itself. they will deal with you but the best weapon of defense (or offense) is to know what you are talking about and also some various prices for that product that you have seen on the internet/forums. just remember, they don't really want to haul all of those things back home, but they also don't want to leave a $100 bill sitting on the table either.

3. i would most definitley ask..........always be courteous and you might even get a live shot of the subject outside of his/her "home". plus, it never hurts to be nice, you might just buy from that person and it could bring you a discounted deal.

How can I tell if a breeder's reputable though? I've looked through the vendors listing and honestly I don't recognize any of the names up there. Should I just go to whichever table seems the crowdyest? :shrugs:

Do people usually ask for reciepts or gurantees for these kinds of purchases? Like a written guarantee that lets me exchange the snake if it doesn't feed in 30 days or dies within a week or something like that?

I got my first snake from petco, and it was kind of an impulsive buy, so I'm not familiar with how this business runs...

knowledge, studying, searching, reading,............nothing can take the place of INFO. if you don't recognize the names, look for them online. maybe they have a website and alot of people these days have a "feedback" section or "satisfied customer" section. read on those also. if you have heard of them from other responsible snake owners, then more than likely a receipt would not do you any good. a reputable breeder will back up there product to a certain extent (lack of water, food, care, heat, etc. will not get one replaced). just pretend that you have a school exam this weekend and do a crash course the next few days online. jot down stuff you find out and take them with you to the expo........what you want, how much they should be running, the vendors that you found online with stars like from 1-5 on which is the better. instead of calling them cliff notes........call them "corn" or "expo" notes.

enjoy your 1st show and let us know come monday what you bought along with some pics..................

 

[diamondlil]

I got my ghost, Annie from a show in Essex. I broke with my plan to see everything before choosing I don't regret it though, her breeder had all her hatch/feed/shed details printed out, was really helpful and held her back for me while I checked out the other snakes. I'd definately say to see how the vendors attitude is, while also appreciating that if they're busy they might not be able to answer all your questions fully and pick your moment

 

[westexherps]

I just looked through the list of vendors, I'm not familiar with any of them but I do recommend emailing them before the show. I know when I vend I always have a few people that email me before hand and I'm usually more willing to work with prices with someone that I have talked to before. Also you might want to check the ACR breeder list and see if any of them are on there.

 

[Chris Olson]

Personally, it doesn't bother me when people ask me if I will negotiate the price of an animal. There is no doubt that there are deals to be had near the end of a show, but a low price doesn't always equal a good value. Value is price + quality + service. I think getting there early, and talking to a lot of vendors is a good way to go. Collect business cards and ask questions. If a vendor seems irritate or impatient to answer your questions and talk to you, politely move to the next table....without buying anything from them. Ask about the animals feeding history, the parents, and the vendors health guarantee. If you have questions after the sale, can you contact him/her? If the vendor seems less than enthused about you calling him/her after the sale you would do better with someone else.

Chris

 

[JoannaD]

I've been to that show many (too many?) times. There will probably be a lot more breeders there than listed. I have 4 snakes from Bod Deptula (Hopyard Herps) and they are all doing fabulously. He is very pleasant to deal with. He can be hard to get a hold of through email though. I never had a problem with any of his snakes, I was contacting him to find out about his available stock.

There are often smaller breeders as well.

Regal Reptiles and a few others are large stores and/or wholesalers. I have never bought from them but one of their employees was very nice and showed me how to probe a snake at a different show though!

Joanna

 

[simple_minded]

Thanks for all the replies and wonderful suggestions!

Also you might want to check the ACR breeder list and see if any of them are on there.

I did as you suggested, and I only found Bob Deptula(mentioned by Joanna) and PM herps on there. And I think PM Herps only sells boids by the look of their website. So I guess Bob's will be one of the first tables I visit.

I think I'd just have to use my common sense then if I'm going to buy something. But either way I'm pretty excited to go and I can't wait to see what the show has to offer!

 

[JoannaD]

Just to let you know I would buy from Bob again in the future but...he won't have records of feeding, shedding etc. He is also not completely up to date on cornsnake genetics. He breeds corns, western hognose, kingsnakes and others. I think he is on the ACR list because I registered the two corns I bought from him.

You can let him know that the woman who always asks about his grandkids and who he remembers for the look I gave him when I bought from him, sent you. (Long I know but he only knows me that way!).


Joanna