Why are my snakes "cuddling" and hiding together?

[the-toddicus]

Hey, it's my first time owning a corn snake and I've gone right into the deep end with a breeding pair. I've had them for 2 weeks now and they were settling in great, exploring the vivarium and starting to become great at being handled. In this second week, they just seem to hide on the heat mat, kinda like they're cuddling. The female is curled up really tight and the male is curled up around her. Every time I open the viv to check on them, the female, who was very curious and would come straight to the door, hides further into the male, who has gone from very shy to almost protective in a way, just not letting me handle either of them. My initial thought is could she be pregnant now? If not what else would cause this almost diminishment in behaviour?

Any help/tips would be much appreciated! Thank you!

 

[the-toddicus]

Update: When handling for feeding I Noticed the eyes are also cloudy, they well may be due to shed so could that possibly be the result?

 

[Giga]

Couple of questions before we begin...

How old and big are these snakes? Have they been bred before and if so, was it with each other? Were they housed together before you got them? How big is their vivarium, what are the temps and what do you have in the way of hides/decor in their?

Shedding is very likely the major cause of the change in behaviour (in my experience, snakes in the same house all seem to shed at roughly the same time, for some reason). Snakes that are preparing for a shed are typically more sedentary (rarely leave their hides) and shy/defensive than usual, and that combined with the change in eye colour is a dead giveaway. This cloudiness will clear up before the actual shed.

Nevertheless, I would strongly, strongly suggest separating your snakes. Cohabitation such as you describe can be done successfully, but it's very difficult to get right and really isn't recommended for new keepers. It's also best not done with opposite-sex pairs. Don't take their "cuddling" to be a sign of affection; snakes are at best apathetic towards one another and at other times, hostile. When they are both on the heat mat, they are competing for heat, not snuggling amicably and besides, males will stress females out by constantly pestering them to mate. Just because you don't see this aggressive behaviour doesn't mean it doesn't happen; corn snakes are mostly active at night after all. You need to put them in separate complete set-ups and if, in the Spring, you decide you want to try to breed them, place them in the same enclosure only for brief periods to allow mating.

 

[DollysMom]

I've read enough to understand that co-habbing is much more accepted in the UK. However that doesn't mean it's best for the snakes. Giga said it all very well. Do separate them, please.

Welcome to the forum. I'm sure you didn't expect to come here and be hit with the recommendation to separate them right away. That doesn't take away from the fact that you are welcome and wanted here. Best wishes.

 

[axis1]

Update: When handling for feeding I Noticed the eyes are also cloudy, they well may be due to shed so could that possibly be the result?

Hi there the-toddicus! How ya been?

While I am far from an expert at keeping reptiles, I am an experienced snake owner and THIS area is one in which I could write a lot more than you probably would care to read.

That said, Giga hit the nail on the head in terms of your little sneaky ones! Breeding and cohabitation are NOT areas for newbies and the latter probably shouldn't even be done by experienced herpetologists as it can significantly decrease the quality of life for the snakes in question. I had erroneously cohabbed my 3 adult corns for almost 8 years until I witnessed the two males trying to mate, at which point I delurked and became a participating member of this site. While I am glad I began to communicate (as I wouldn't even be writing this now had I stayed silent!), I had to make an honest decision in terms of caring for my little sneaky ones. During the Spring, males becaome aggressive towards each other and they also PESTER (Giga's wise words!) the female unless and until she receives them as mates. I mistakenly thought they were politely waiting for her as each male would hang out by a log she was hiding in! And I also mistakenly thought they were cuddling together when they were probably competing for the best place in the viv! Their sheer length requires them to appear so! If they could only talk!

Needless to say, since separating ALL this past April, Lilly (my female) has double-clutched, giving me 22 healthy (though somewhat challenging) snowcorns out of 29 eggs laid!! 6 were just hatched out this past Wednesday!! And she has gained over 100 grams since laying, something she didn't do last year after only 3 successfully hatched eggs out of 12, with only one long-term survivor! Also, both males (Bozo & Chili-Pepper) have gained and maintained some weight and haven't refused any meals since, often times eating rats upward of 75 grams each (don't know if this is the BEST practice, but they seem to LOVE them!).

In my experience, only pet store owners or breeders trying to get rid of multiple corns will even try to say that they are "communal" animals. This is an extremely narrow-minded and mercenary view. Therefore, in my opinion, if you really love your little sneaky ones, either separate them or find a new home for one and pair them only as Giga suggests, for a brief time, during the Spring of 2017, as that ship has sailed for this year!

Here is a picture of Bozo prior to his last meal, before he weighed almost 900 grams!

 

[axis1]

(Sorry that the picture above seems to have turned on its own! I have tried multiple times to correct this but some pix just appear stubborn and I don't have the luxury of time necessary to research a fix, so for that I am sorry).

I also meant to add to my post that cloudy eyes are almost a certain sign that your snake will shed in a couple to a few days.

Good luck and as Dollysmom said, I do hope you decide to stick around. When you receive the responses you did so quickly, you HAVE to know that at the very least, you are in a place where people are passionate about their snakes, who to many of us, are treated as extended family members!!!

Later on!!

 

[Giga]

(in my experience, snakes in the same house all seem to shed at roughly the same time, for some reason).

Just wanted to clarify what I said earlier as I reread it and realised what I said might not be clear - I meant snakes in the same building - my house - tend to shed at the same time, not in the same enclosure. I don't cohab any snakes.

 

[kdickens]

There we go! Now I won't get a crick in my neck! Very pretty snake! (and big up against my 78g monster)

 

[axis1]

There we go! Now I won't get a crick in my neck! Very pretty snake! (and big up against my 78g monster)[/SIZE][/COLOR]

Wow!! That was extremely nice of you!! Thanx a bunch!!!! I just noticed that I resized it somewhat successfully without making it the size of a fingernail, but I accidentally cut off the sides which add to Bozo's appearance (can hardly notice the blotch on his head anymore - which was HUGE when he was a yearling! - and was how he got his name (for those old enough to remember the show!). Ok, so I AM old enough to be able to fart dust! But there are some here that knew God when He was a boy! So maybe I'm not actually circling the drain just yet!!!

Thanx again bro!! :crazy02: