Your thoughts on releasing w/c snakes

[simple_minded]

Just wondering what you guys think about this. I'm not actually planning on releasing any of my lil babies, I love them too much.

First of all, what do you feel about keeping wild snakes? I think it's fine as long as you're not depleting your local population by catching and selling them in huge numbers. But it's alright if you catch a male and a female and breed them and sell the babies.

Next, would you release a wild snake that you caught and kept? Say you found the snake and a week later you decide to release it. How 'bout a month? a year? Would the snake now be too tame to be wild again? Is it ethical?

Personally I've caught some garters before, kept them for a while, and released them, but rarely longer than a month. I live pretty far north, so that's about the only type of snake found around here.

I would love to hear some of your input about this subject.

 

[Dave123]

Well one of my 3 corns is wild caught. He was about 1 when I got him and im not sure when he was caught. If you did catch a male and female first of all you might want to take them to a vet and get them dewormed or whatever they do. But I think you could catch them and then sell the babies.

If I did catch a snake I probably would only release it if it has been a week or two. Im not sure how a CB or even a Wild Caught snake would do in the wild if it has been your pet very long. On the other hand Im sure many many people have released CB snakes and they have done fine but thats a pretty big risk.

Well I need to go back to my homework, love to see what others have to say on this topic.

 

[MegF.]

I don't have a problem with it, but it is illegal to do in most snakes. Worries about releasing disease into the wild population etc. There are so many corns out there that are healthy and available that it's no longer worth it to pull from the wild. There are plenty of people I know that take wild snakes (mostly venomous) and release them back to the original area if they don't seem to be handling captivity well.

 

[zwyatt]

Personally, I don't find it ethical to release a previously wild specimen that has been captive for an extended period. A couple of weeks or a month is probably okay, but I sure wouldn't know where to draw the line or want to risk having to draw it.
I haven't ever seen any information regarding the point at which a snake's "taming" becomes irreverisible, if there even is such a point. My point being...is there a point at which a snake just becomes so used to being fed that it starts to lose it's instinct/ability to hunt properly? Or is it so programmed (instinctual) that even captive bred hatchlings from captive parents and captive grandparents can be released and survive perfectly well right after hatching? There might actually be some observational data for this second question. Some members of this forum might have even done this. Again, I'm not referring to catching two adults, breeding them, and then releasing those hatchlings. I'm talking about many generations of captivity and then releasing the hatchlings.

I'm also not a big fan/supporter of capturing wild snakes and keeping them as pets. I know it seems like a contradictory or at least somewhat two-faced, but an animal born free just belongs in the wild...if that makes sense. I realize it often doesn't deplete wild populations and may even be giving them a "better" life, but it's one of those things that just doesn't feel completely right to me personally.

Those are my thoughts on the topic. I believe there may be another thread on this. It might be in the cultivars forum or possibly somewhere else, can't really remember.

 

[jzal8]

I don't see any problem with it at all. I'd imagine a snake's instinct would drive it enough to survive. I know when my snakes have no eaten in some time, they are much more active and appear to be 'on the prowl'. Making sure the corn is released into an area that is condusive to a corns natural lifestyle i would imagine is important. Beyond that, nature will handle it.

 

[maegann]

to me, whats wild should stay wild.

 

[mike17l]

Captive Born Snakes Should Not be Released

Captive born snakes or snakes that have been in captivity for very long, should not be released, what so ever. The possibility of disease transmition, is too great. Also, localized gene pools could be polluted beyond repair. Imagine the possibilities if a person released captive born hets into the wild. People would be amazed to find a "new morph," when in reality all they found was captive bred crap, that has polluted the wild gene pool. I am quite certain a F9000 corn snake, who's original sires and dams were caught in 4027 BC (hypothetical) would still have the instinct to survive, but it should not be released. If you do not want it, sell it, give it away, or euthanize it.

 

[Hypancistrus]

Captive born snakes or snakes that have been in captivity for very long, should not be released, what so ever. The possibility of disease transmition, is too great.

Took the words out of I mouth.

"You become responsible forever for what you have tamed."

 

[simple_minded]

Originally Posted by mike17l
Captive born snakes or snakes that have been in captivity for very long, should not be released, what so ever. The possibility of disease transmition, is too great.


Took the words out of I mouth.

"You become responsible forever for what you have tamed."

But theres still the question.. how long is too long? I mean, I really don't think you're doing a snake much harm if you just keep a w/c for a couple of days. Personally I might if I find an interesting snake just for the sake of curiousity. I probably won't feed the snake if my intent is to release it soon. On a side note... I've only heard of transmitting "wild" diseases into your colonies, but I didn't know that there are actually "domestic" diseases that you might release into the wild?

I'd imagine a snake's instinct would drive it enough to survive.

I'm not sure I could agree with that. One of my w/c garters was EXTREMELY jumpy when I first caught her. She would, like most snakes, instinctively try to escape when something's hovering over her. But after a month of two, she no longer cares if I wave my hand above her and would crawl onto my hand when I put it in the cage. This to me seems like a big disadvantage in the wild. She'd probably be in a lot more danger from all kinds of birds of prey around here. I mean, one dead garter probably doesn't do much harm to the ecosystem as a whole, but its the whole ethics of it, that I'm the one who removed those wild instincts and therefore caused the snake to die. I think some captive corn snakes might've also lost this instinct to flee from predators.

Also... how well CAN they find food? They might look, but do they know where to look? I mean.. imagine if you have a mouse in a box on one end of the house and set the snake loose on the other end of the house. How many of our snakes could actually find their meal this way? And we're not even talking about snakes who forgot how to constrict because they've ate f/t for so long. A strong rodent might actually fatally harm such a snake.

 

[mike17l]

But theres still the question.. how long is too long? I mean, I really don't think you're doing a snake much harm if you just keep a w/c for a couple of days. Personally I might if I find an interesting snake just for the sake of curiousity. I probably won't feed the snake if my intent is to release it soon. On a side note... I've only heard of transmitting "wild" diseases into your colonies, but I didn't know that there are actually "domestic" diseases that you might release into the wild?

"Too long" would depend on how the snake is maintained in captivity. If the snake is kept near other captive reptiles for more than a few days it should not be released. If it is kept in a quarantine area away from captive reptiles, it could be kept for many months or even years, before it is released. The main point here, is that it should not come into contact with captive animals. That is where the problem relies. Many captive colonies have desiese in them. Disiese, that is unseen and that has no effect on captive animals, in that environment. Animals can build up immunities to disease as they are exposed to them over time, diseases that wild animals would be over run with. Think of the Natvie American Indians, how where many killed? They were given blankets, that had diseases such as small pox in them.

I'm not sure I could agree with that. One of my w/c garters was EXTREMELY jumpy when I first caught her. She would, like most snakes, instinctively try to escape when something's hovering over her. But after a month of two, she no longer cares if I wave my hand above her and would crawl onto my hand when I put it in the cage. This to me seems like a big disadvantage in the wild. She'd probably be in a lot more danger from all kinds of birds of prey around here. I mean, one dead garter probably doesn't do much harm to the ecosystem as a whole, but its the whole ethics of it, that I'm the one who removed those wild instincts and therefore caused the snake to die. I think some captive corn snakes might've also lost this instinct to flee from predators.

Also... how well CAN they find food? They might look, but do they know where to look? I mean.. imagine if you have a mouse in a box on one end of the house and set the snake loose on the other end of the house. How many of our snakes could actually find their meal this way? And we're not even talking about snakes who forgot how to constrict because they've ate f/t for so long. A strong rodent might actually fatally harm such a snake.

I challenge you, place your garter outside for an hour or so (watch it of course) and then pick it up and see if it acts the same. Take a 10 year old captive born cornsnake that has eaten frozen thawed mice its entire life and place a live mouse in with it. I guarantee that it will constrict, kill, and eat the mouse with out any problems.

 

[MegF.]

I would have to agree. My female that just laid all those eggs was fed live for the first time in her life to attempt to get her feeding again. She's always been fed f/t, sometimes she would constrict, but most often not. She struck, constricted and killed the live mouse so quickly it didn't have time to squeek. She is back on f/t but still attacks it as if alive. Instinct is instinct. Disease may be one problem, but as far as not being able to survive...I think that's nonsense. How many escapees are found after as long as a year or so still in good condition? Plenty. As far as polluting the gene pool, if you returned offspring of two wild caught animals to the same area, it's not polluting anything. I have 3rd generation animals that are directly from hunt club animals. They've never been outcrossed to any other domestic animals, only unrelated Hunt Club animals. They would no more pollute a wild population than any other.

 

[mike17l]

I would have to agree. My female that just laid all those eggs was fed live for the first time in her life to attempt to get her feeding again. She's always been fed f/t, sometimes she would constrict, but most often not. She struck, constricted and killed the live mouse so quickly it didn't have time to squeek. She is back on f/t but still attacks it as if alive. Instinct is instinct. Disease may be one problem, but as far as not being able to survive...I think that's nonsense. How many escapees are found after as long as a year or so still in good condition? Plenty. As far as polluting the gene pool, if you returned offspring of two wild caught animals to the same area, it's not polluting anything. I have 3rd generation animals that are directly from hunt club animals. They've never been outcrossed to any other domestic animals, only unrelated Hunt Club animals. They would no more pollute a wild population than any other.

They may be from the "Hunt Club" but that does not mean they are necessarily from the same local. How big is the hunt club? Many people consider all of Jasper County, the "Hunt Club". So how big is it then, we have no idea. I am going to use the county, because that is generally what people consider "Okeetee"s. Jasper County is 423,680 acres (662 sq miles) in size (area). Now that is alot of area. If your animals both originated from the hunt club/jasper county, there is no telling where they could have actually originated from. The could be from 15 or 20 miles apart. Now your animals may be from the same exact local (perhaps collected the same day, with in one hundred yards of each other) but how many people know that there animals were collected that close to each other. Who is to say that if they were collected that close to each other that they would have ever meet in the wild. Unless a person collects a pair of snake actually mating then they have no way of knowing which snakes would have actually mated in the wild. If they then release some CB snakes from a pair then they are playing God, which I know that I am in no way qualified to do.