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F/T vs. Live Debate

Kali said:
Without any doubt at all I'm going to get heat for this... But aren't you beating a dead horse already? He clearly stated his vieuws on this and is not going to change that. You clearly stated your disgust for this (and him) and are not going to change that. I don't see how keeping at it is in *any* way constructive anymore.

Let the thread be a little peacefull now it had taken a turn away from all the animosity.

Please?
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don't worry bout it i will just ignore him so the thread wil continue peacefully. as you stated we both have our views and mine aren't as he's describing them he's just taking sentences from a heated argument in another thread and posting them here. we both won't change are views so its useless from my part to answer to his offenses tough if he wishes to continue doing this well so be it.
 
Nroc said:
When you feed dogs and cats raw foods, do you clean them up afterwards? I can just see all sorts of raw meat products all over their faces and whatnot...

I wouldn't want that snuggling up to me...
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not every meat will be bloody yeah sometimes they'll have their fur full of blood (especially a white dog like i have) i just clean it with a wet cloth and then it will be fully cleaned by itself and i do it cause usually after he eats he comes jumping on the bed lol.
 
DarkSmoke said:
don't worry bout it i will just ignore him so the thread wil continue peacefully. as you stated we both have our views and mine aren't as he's describing them he's just taking sentences from a heated argument in another thread and posting them here. we both won't change are views so its useless from my part to answer to his offenses tough if he wishes to continue doing this well so be it.
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It's not just me though. There are OTHER people in OTHER threads who don't like the fact that he feeds live. Many of these people were trying to help him with problems, and he just refuses to listen to anybody. (That 3 month long thread where he is begging for help because simple regurge protocal escapes his comprehension springs to mind.)

He can barely keep a yearling from regurging and can't seem be able to tell a normal poop from a regurge, and yet, refuses to feed thawed food because nobody is as smart as he is......
 
Also, if Darksmoke REALLY believes in the benefits of mice in their "natural" state instead of freezing (even though freezing DOES help kill bacteria and parasites AND make the mouse more easily digested)....
he could construct a CO2 chamber. That way, the mouse dies with no suffering, and his snake would never risk an injury.

I read years ago that ball pythons tend to get bitten and injured by live prey more than any other species of snake. And, once bitten, some ball pythons become so afraid of their food that they can starve themselves to death....

does this matter to someone who thinks his way is right and everybody else is wrong?
 
I could almost understand the cruelty to the rodent. After all many people just plain HATE mice & rats & so wouldn't really care, just like I don't feel terribly cruel for killing mosquitoes or fleas, and apparently people who feed crickets to their lizards don't seem to have a problem with it.

What I can't understand is if we care about our snakes (and presumably we do or we woudn't own them) why take the risk of having them severely bitten by live rodents? I saw, somewhere, some REALLY GRUESOME pictures of what rodents can do to snakes & I never want to have that happen to MY snakes. I could see someone making an argument for raising their own feeders & feeding p/k to get the most nutrition. I knew someone once who subscribed to that theory & had a burm. Yum, freshly killed bunny! But the rabbit was DEAD when it went into the burm's enclosure, because my acquaintance, although a little odd, was NOT taking any chances of the burm being injured by the rabbits.

So for me it all comes down to the wellbeing of the animal I have chosen to take responsbility for, and f/t does it for my snakes because it is best for their wellbeing.
 
wstphal said:
I could almost understand the cruelty to the rodent. After all many people just plain HATE mice & rats & so wouldn't really care, just like I don't feel terribly cruel for killing mosquitoes or fleas, and apparently people who feed crickets to their lizards don't seem to have a problem with it.

What I can't understand is if we care about our snakes (and presumably we do or we woudn't own them) why take the risk of having them severely bitten by live rodents? I saw, somewhere, some REALLY GRUESOME pictures of what rodents can do to snakes & I never want to have that happen to MY snakes. I could see someone making an argument for raising their own feeders & feeding p/k to get the most nutrition. I knew someone once who subscribed to that theory & had a burm. Yum, freshly killed bunny! But the rabbit was DEAD when it went into the burm's enclosure, because my acquaintance, although a little odd, was NOT taking any chances of the burm being injured by the rabbits.

So for me it all comes down to the wellbeing of the animal I have chosen to take responsbility for, and f/t does it for my snakes because it is best for their wellbeing.
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I can even understand live-feeding when you've no other option. When I first got Mouse (affectionately referred to as my "problem snake") she refused to eat for over a month and I was thiiiiiis close to driving out and forcing myself to feed her a live pink, but I was DREADING it. I practically kissed the ground when she shed (with help, as is normal for her although she's slowly improving) and took a f/t pink... even if I was practically beating her with it before she even noticed it was there haha.
 
Pepper said:
I can even understand live-feeding when you've no other option. When I first got Mouse (affectionately referred to as my "problem snake") she refused to eat for over a month and I was thiiiiiis close to driving out and forcing myself to feed her a live pink, but I was DREADING it. I practically kissed the ground when she shed (with help, as is normal for her although she's slowly improving) and took a f/t pink... even if I was practically beating her with it before she even noticed it was there haha.
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Oh I DEFINATELY understand when there is no other option. This guy took a ball python that had been raised on f/t, and converted it to live!!
 
Well I'm just going to throw my two cents in and I might get flamed for saying this, may not. My cousin owned two corn's cohabbed them since they were little fed live(stunned) they're whole life with no problems, no scars, diseases, anything. One died of natural causes at age 15 and the other got out and curled up behind the drier and you know what happened next. Currently I feed live fuzzy's due to the fact that Petsmart's f/t mice are skinny and probably malnourished. So if anyone has any ideas to where I can get f/t for only two corns(can't buy bulk, most of it will go to waste) also I know thats off topic. But the point I'm getting at is basically to each his own. You've both proved your points just let it go. I understand why DarkSmoke feeds live(not to be heartless or a notch above a pedofile) he has his reasons leave that to him. I also understand why you feed f/t starstevol and I'll leave that to you. Like other members have said here you both have proven your point just let it go. It's a lot less stressful.
 
I can't tell you where else to get a small amount of frozen rodents (except Petco) but you can breed (or keep buying) your mice live and either construct a CO2 chamber or use the cervical dislocation method to kill them.
 
Just a note on dog evolution:

I am an animal behavior major taking a course on the behavior and evolution of dogs, and the most prevalent theory in the literature is that dogs evolved naturally from wolves based on flight distance, which in turn led to a number of other changes. They were dump dwellers, and got more nutrition from the dump than other wild animals because of the decreased flight distance. They were then taken in and selectively bred. They are genetically predisposed to short flight distances and easy inter species socialization. (Coppinger and Coppinger 2001) The studies with the bayelev foxes shows that simply selecting for flight distance causes a number of changes in appearance, including patchy coats, curled tails and floppy ears, all of which are characteristics of domestic dogs and not wolves.

Sorry, I just get excited when I know things.:crazy01:

hehe
 
there was a show about the evolution of dogs on pbs a few months back that i saw one part of, but they mention both of the things above
they also referenced some dna studies, very interesting
 
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