A couple of pics of some my collection.

[Carinata]

Jim, what kind of hook do you use? Did you get it from Brad Baysinger?

 

[tricksterpup]

Jim, what kind of hook do you use? Did you get it from Brad Baysinger?

David these are standard hooks. I got them when I got my girl from the original owner.

The hooks I got from Brad are 15 and 18 inch hooks. Good size for aggressive kings.

Also, another thing about the Asian Rat.. The king Rat.
One of the reasons I did not recommend one to you is that they are aggressive and foul smelling animals when they musk. For someone your age, they would have tired of it very fast and the animal would have suffered in the long run. I still stand by this belief but you have stuck with this hobby longer than most your age. You have proved to be the exception of the rule at this point.

 

[Carinata]

Thanks Jim and I will be the first to tell you she is not a handleing snake but she is fun to watch and is in good condition but she is a watching animal not an animal I desire to handle. BTW I am going to be ordering a few hooks from Brad sometime soon

 

[LBoz]

We've been debating Retics Burms Anacondas and Afrock's on here recently....
As a keeper of a few of these species, how do you find them?.... Aggressive? Easy to keep? What size do they get to etc? It would be interesting to here a hands on account of these animals...

I would also like to hear Ryan's answers about HIS snakes!

 

[snakewispera snr]

Hey whoa chill, I agree with you. And I want to hear what the op has to say(beautiful snakes by the way). Its just that I can foresee another huge thread starting about the same discussion we've been having and that's not what this thread was for.

It may of been....

As a Keeper of a Burm..
I personally find my snake very pleasant. She is between 13 - 14 feet long.
I give her a healthy respect though. She is calm and friendly out side of her cage but a tigress inside. She is hook trained, so she knows she is being pulled out when something is placed on her head.

But to be honest, i wouldn't trust someone who didnt know how to handle large snakes around her. I would be afraid of them being dragged into the cage.

Now the snake i would say that I wouldnt want to keep would be Scrubs. I hear that WC Scrubs are just nasty mean creatures.

Some nice info from an experienced Burm keeper there....
Would you say one experienced person has a better chance of handling a snake that size than two inexperience burm owners... Hypothetical of course.... Just the two person rule is trooped out so often and IMO it's worth remembering experience with this species is more important than the numbers.....
Oh and do you want me to bring over an experienced W'C scrub importer to have a chat with....
Christian brings them into the UK AFAIK.... He's a wealth of knowledge and may be interested in talking WC with us.....

I would also like to hear Ryan's answers about HIS snakes!

Obviously I know Ryan from UK forums and he came here after I posted the Worst pet snake thread. for people who keep them to read.....
It's only fair that people know that I know Ryan....

 

[Kokopelli]

Wrong Oren... A care sheet can be written by anybody who has a decent command of the chosen language and the time to average out research.....
There's a vast difference between owning a species and reading about a species.....
Other wise we wouldn't have all the help threads from newbs who have researched for the last 9 months...

I am talking about care-sheets made by reputable keepers... and there are quite a few of them.
As I told you in private, even if I do accept the general statement that the species of the snake does not effect their temperament(though I have to say experience had taught me otherwise)- large constrictors, even if they are puppy dog tame, can deliver a bite, or you can accidentally face a feeding response.
With small snakes, most people will be able to handle with the ramifications of such an incident, but when you put huge constrictors in the same equation... well, it can end badly.
We're not talking about dogs here, "taming" is impossible, not to a degree that would render these snakes completely harmless even in cases where the keeper makes a mistake.

So even if they were all gentle giants- a single feeding response can put you in a hospital, or even kill you. That's not something to be taken lightly.

So I am not arguing about their temper. I have BCI, they are true puppies- but I too made a mistake and was bitten- no big deal, these are dwarves.... but would I want to receive the same from a 9 foot+ animal? would I be strong enough to get things under control? I am not so sure.
Fact of the matter is, these are still predators, human beings make mistakes, and these animals can overpower us if we are not careful- that's enough for me to label them as potentially dangerous- moreso than your average pet, yes.

 

[snakewispera snr]

So I am not arguing about their temper. I have BCI, they are true puppies- but I too made a mistake and was bitten- no big deal, these are dwarves.... but would I want to receive the same from a 9 foot+ animal? would I be strong enough to get things under control? I am not so sure.
Fact of the matter is, these are still predators, human beings make mistakes, and these animals can overpower us if we are not careful- that's enough for me to label them as potentially dangerous- moreso than your average pet, yes.

I totally agree with you... And you won't make that mistake again will you...
For a newb to get a giant constrictor as an adult and be expected to know all protocols and habits is like taking someone for their first driving lesson in a nascar.. It's bound to end badly.... But you can easily work up to it...
Luckly with snakes they start off as your grannys run about before becoming nascars so with the right approach it's not the jump that some make it out to be.... It couldn't be otherwise you wouldn't be able to make the transition from milks to boas with such confidence, could you?

 

[Kokopelli]

I totally agree with you... And you won't make that mistake again will you...
For a newb to get a giant constrictor as an adult and be expected to know all protocols and habits is like taking someone for their first driving lesson in a nascar.. It's bound to end badly.... But you can easily work up to it...
Luckly with snakes they start off as your grannys run about before becoming nascars so with the right approach it's not the jump that some make it out to be.... It couldn't be otherwise you wouldn't be able to make the transition from milks to boas with such confidence, could you?

You make some valid points. However, not everyone is suited to be in Nascar- these things are regulated and maintained- it takes years to get there, and a person needs certain skills and physical abilities not everyone does.

There are no such things in the herp world- any git with enough money can buy an Anaconda/retic as long as he can pay for it.
Also, we're not talking about a race-track here, but the vicinity of your own home- which is situated in a town, and if the snake gets out, your neighbors can end up paying the cost for your choice- even if you are an expert, if the snake gets out, and someone else runs across it.... you can't take that sort of responsibility.

Personally I disagree with the comparison. a Nascar driver needs to be qualified for it, and there are strict security measures. As a hobbyist? your reality is different.

Also- you take for granted one's capacity to learn from their mistakes... but there are idiots out there also, who can end up buying a snake and take really poor care of it- just sticking him in a large cage without touching him aside from feeding... and then one day the cage is left open accidentally.
I have met and known many idiots who did not learn from their mistakes- overfeeding, not using thermometers, getting bit repeatedly et cetera... these people too currently are capable of buying a huge constrictor... I don't trust them with such snakes.

 

[snakewispera snr]

You make some valid points. However, not everyone is suited to be in Nascar- these things are regulated and maintained- it takes years to get there, and a person needs certain skills and physical abilities not everyone does.

There are no such things in the herp world- any git with enough money can buy an Anaconda/retic as long as he can pay for it.
Also, we're not talking about a race-track here, but the vicinity of your own home- which is situated in a town, and if the snake gets out, your neighbors can end up paying the cost for your choice- even if you are an expert, if the snake gets out, and someone else runs across it.... you can't take that sort of responsibility.

Personally I disagree with the comparison. a Nascar driver needs to be qualified for it, and there are strict security measures. As a hobbyist? your reality is different.

Also- you take for granted one's capacity to learn from their mistakes... but there are idiots out there also, who can end up buying a snake and take really poor care of it- just sticking him in a large cage without touching him aside from feeding... and then one day the cage is left open accidentally.
I have met and known many idiots who did not learn from their mistakes- overfeeding, not using thermometers, getting bit repeatedly et cetera... these people too currently are capable of buying a huge constrictor... I don't trust them with such snakes.

Oren there's lots of threads that we can have hypothetical debates about this issue on.... This isn't one of them... I understand your stance on this and I am enjoying the banter and trying to get my point across... Now lets leave this for experience keepers to debate the owning of species and we can ask them questions about what it's like, actually, in their experience... Whether we agree with keeping them or not is besides the point, lets get some facts to chew over....

 

[Kokopelli]

Oren there's lots of threads that we can have hypothetical debates about this issue on.... This isn't one of them... I understand your stance on this and I am enjoying the banter and trying to get my point across... Now lets leave this for experience keepers to debate the owning of species and we can ask them questions about what it's like, actually, in their experience... Whether we agree with keeping them or not is besides the point, lets get some facts to chew over....

I didn't think this was anything other than a discussion... one which is as valid if not moreso than what people who own these snakes have to say... this isn't philosophy... people can make mistakes, and these mistakes can end up being too big to contain. My opinion will remain the same even if I will be told all Anacondas are sweet loving snakes that can babysit children

But by all means, information's always nice. I just don't see how such information can render the things I spoke of as irrelevant.

Hope I said nothing offensive,

Oren.

 

[snakewispera snr]

Nothing offensive my friend, you could never offend.... Well not me anyway.... LOL
No I think we have had enough threads with google founded opinions... I thought I would ask people who keep said species to come here for a Q/A time.... Hands on experience may be flawed if the owner only ever worked with one, but it's better than internet experience just handed on without ever thinking, and going to see these animals for oneself....
On the other hand I may be getting dodgy mates to join and stitch you lot up....
So don't believe a word of anything they post. Go and see for your self what the reality is and stop trusting National Geographic as a reliable source that can be quoted with confidence....
Thats my point in all this...

 

[snakewispera snr]

BTW a Scrub keeper may join tomorrow...

 

[wstphal]

Well, I have ZERO interest in owning anything bigger than a dwarf BCI, but I am happy to learn about these big beauties. I do think that we herp lovers need to be somewhat self-policing. Some moron who can't care for a burm shouldn't have one, and that shouldn't happen because the gubmint passes laws. That moron may get hurt, or worse, someone else in the moron's household or neighborhood may get hurt and that is bad for all of us. So I take Oren's points about the morons. I also worry about the snakes. There are some sad looking BCs listed on CL around here, and I can only imagine what sorts of lives some retics end up with. People who can't provide for the needs of a big snake, even if they can keep themselves safe from the snake, should NOT own one.

I also realize that there are people, and the OP sure looks like one of them, and Mike maybe too (do you have supersized snakes, Mike?) who can care for the snake properly & keep themselves & others safe at the same time.

 

[The Snake Guru]

Scrub keeper already Joined a while ago. LOL Or for that matter there isn't actually much I haven't kept.

Quite a thread guys.

It is always tough to say EXACTLY what kind of temperment any snake will have, most of time when people ask I say "generally" because let's face it some species are known for aggressive tendancies, others are not, some are in between....and even within those groups you break it down further to individuals, as with anything else each individual snake will have it's own set of quirks.

So as a general rule, Burms - Pretty laid back, Afocks - Not so laid back, Retics - handlable some to the point of laid back but mostly "runners" they really do not like sitting still for very long. Anacondas - Greens: Can be very handable, Yellows are usually pretty skittish, as a general rule I classify Anacondas as Not trustworthy....I've seen "baby tame" specimens take a swipe at you for no apparent reason.

Scrubs....Scrubs are quite a differnt breed, I've got some that are demons, and one Barneck girl that is CB that is as relaxed as a Ball Python. Varies quite a bit between locals too.

Also as a general rule Wild Caught individuals tend to be "not so nice"

I really hate to use the term "Aggressive" too, because in truth Snakes are not out to "get you" it is the shy reclusive individuals that just want to be left alone that are the biters, it's not thier fault you put them in the cage and they have to recourse but to lash out at you.

Anyway, I'm sure that painted a big old bulls-eye on my forehead but I just thought I would crash the party a little...LOL (Thank to Trickster) LOL

~B~

 

[snakewispera snr]

I keep forgetting that you guys live in one giant vast land where it's not possible to know who you are selling to all the time.....
That's much easier in the UK as all of us are no more than about 6 hrs apart.....
And our site has probably everyone who keeps, on it, or the ones who are not, know someone who is.....
I suppose we police ourselves more efficiently than is possible for you.....,
Thats not saying there are no unscrupulous breeders or buyers in the UK.....
We have never had a death from any large boid ever, or venomous in the last 120 yrs....

 

[snakewispera snr]

Scrub keeper already Joined a while ago. LOL Or for that matter there isn't actually much I haven't kept.

Quite a thread guys.

It is always tough to say EXACTLY what kind of temperment any snake will have, most of time when people ask I say "generally" because let's face it some species are known for aggressive tendancies, others are not, some are in between....and even within those groups you break it down further to individuals, as with anything else each individual snake will have it's own set of quirks.

So as a general rule, Burms - Pretty laid back, Afocks - Not so laid back, Retics - handlable some to the point of laid back but mostly "runners" they really do not like sitting still for very long. Anacondas - Greens: Can be very handable, Yellows are usually pretty skittish, as a general rule I classify Anacondas as Not trustworthy....I've seen "baby tame" specimens take a swipe at you for no apparent reason.

Scrubs....Scrubs are quite a differnt breed, I've got some that are demons, and one Barneck girl that is CB that is as relaxed as a Ball Python. Varies quite a bit between locals too.

Also as a general rule Wild Caught individuals tend to be "not so nice"

I really hate to use the term "Aggressive" too, because in truth Snakes are not out to "get you" it is the shy reclusive individuals that just want to be left alone that are the biters, it's not thier fault you put them in the cage and they have to recourse but to lash out at you.

Anyway, I'm sure that painted a big old bulls-eye on my forehead but I just thought I would crash the party a little...LOL (Thank to Trickster) LOL

~B~

I tend to agree with you about the Scrubs...... Especially WC, but that should be a no brainer...... LOL
I feel that handleable snakes are the smaller ones up to about 6-7 ft. After that the snake has the reach to get you in the face, so I tend to 'handle' these differently as I don't mind a bite, but to the face.... Oh no.....
And I agree that a snake is trying to get away and you restrain it, it bites you......
You forgot to say that Retics tend to have a feeding response to consider as well.... LOL
So what sizes were these snakes you kept...

 

[The_Thunderer]

What AWESOME looking snakes... I can only ENVY from afar!

Interesting discussion too...

 

[The Snake Guru]

Yeah I tend to keep things away from face as well....no matter what it is, LOL No replacing a eye.

Ohhhh it's not just retics, all my Scrubs, Burms, Whatever come running when the smell of food is in the air, Scrubs have just as bad of a feeding response as retics and 4 times the strike range. LOL It should just be a no brianer to watch your step when feeing anything.

Everything from 6" to 16 feet.....LOL However my big Male Barneck is pushing 12feet at the moment, has a strike range of about 7ft.....gets real interesting some days.

~B~

 

[CARTOON_HEAD]

hi, sorry i missed you're question had a very sick snake i have had to deal with to have not had much time to come on most of the forums. In general there very rewarding to keep retics,anacondas and african rock pythons are my main focus. Green anacondas are actually a docile species with female reaching anywhere from 13-17ft 17 being quite rare as many simply don't live long enough. The average female will most likely reach around 14ft they grow very slow. Males will most likely top around 10ft. Some Care sheets are pretty crap for infomation and google and natgeo exaggerate sizes listing 20-30ft which is very way off. Some females may reach 19-20ft if they live for quite a while and weight around 200lb. Males weight about the same as a female bci. larger retic locales can get from 14-18ft sometimes in rare cases bigger and around 12-15ft for males in some cases. Afrock females i expect mine to grow at least 12-16ft for the female, male i'm expexting 10ft maybe bigger. and also anacondas do not need a soaking area and 80% humidity! Soaking areas and high humidity can cause blisters and even death via infections. Anacondas thrive much better on room humidity 45-60 and a small water bowl.

 

[wildlifewarrior1]

Hiya, i am new here...i was asked to join by the troublemarker joel/mike(snakewisphera)

Mike mate, most caresheets describe many of them as being potentially feisty- a caresheet -is- a hand-on account mostly. :shrugs:

To be honest when ever i sell a snake to someone i also tell them my own account and experince with them because theres too many websites and careguides which just re-word what wikipedia says. For example most guides and people think the scrub python is a speices of snake,,,,untrue...there a complex of 5 morelia speices which make up the scrub python complex.

Does the term "Asian Ratsnakes mean anything to you?!?!?!?!?!?!!"

To be honest, most asian ratsnakes arent that aggresive in my opinon...having imported alot of beauties and such over the last 10 years nearly i have to say they arent that bad, the trouble is they are strikey not bitey...but when they strikey the owner/handler gets worried and moves there hand back due to the lack of confidence and so the snake does it again...this happens over and over which gives the impression there aggression, but if you go flat palmed at one without fearing it then it will back down. This is why many youn asian lads use these ratsnakes for training,before they move on to dealing with cobras. Asian rat snakes are just snakes that are easy to manipulate into creating a display

Now the snake i would say that I wouldnt want to keep would be Scrubs. I hear that WC Scrubs are just nasty mean creatures.

Again this isnt really true...
any wc adult animal is going to be more aggressive than its cb counter parts.
This is fact,and is no reflection on the individual speices.
adult Wc scrubs are dangerous yes....and they can cause alot of trouble yes...but no wc animal should be taken on lightly, espically not such alarge one like this.

here is a photo of one of my female sorongs

shes 13ft, and extremely powerful...she will never become tame and to be honest i arent a fan of handling snakes as i dont see how it benifits the snake but in some cases it is needed such as with burms and retics where the more docile they are the easier they are to work with.

But the thing that needs to remember is while a wc scrub python will bite you still, they are extremely clever and will become more docile in captivity, the biggest problem is all indonesian reptiles carry parasites and most dont have these treated, and the few who do only have feacal samples done...the trouble with this is these animals carry subcatanous worms and these can only be seen via blood samples and then a full parasitology done in a lab. If all parasites arent treated then the snake will remain even more aggressive.

I have 14 adult scrubs...5 are extremely nasty and the other 9 are the most docile snakes you have ever seen.
here for example

scrub pythons can be dangerous yes...one actually caused my brother to have 30+ sitiches in his arm...but this wasnt the snakes fault...it was a result of the midwest hook which wasnt correctly fused together during manufacturing and it cause snake to fall which it then got startled and bit out at my brother....but when you think about it, it was lucky there wasnt a boomslang,copperhead or such on the head of the hook

Also, another thing about the Asian Rat.. The king Rat.
One of the reasons I did not recommend one to you is that they are aggressive and foul smelling animals when they musk.

do you mean the stinking godness? personally i have found again if you habe them parasite treated then deal with them away from other snakes they are much more docile...in my experince i ahve found them to be very aggressive when they can smell other snakes near by, in the same way a king snake goes mad when it smells its good.

You make some valid points. However, not everyone is suited to be in Nascar- these things are regulated and maintained- it takes years to get there, and a person needs certain skills and physical abilities not everyone does.

compeltely agree. large snakes arent for everyone, just like front fanged snakes arent. theres certain snakes out there for everyone and some people will do amazing with them....i get all my nasty scrubs out with 2 long hooks and nothing more, its all about learning the snake over time.....but this doesnt suit everyone. But provided you know what your doing then it can be very rewarding.

Scrubs....Scrubs are quite a differnt breed, I've got some that are demons, and one Barneck girl that is CB that is as relaxed as a Ball Python. Varies quite a bit between locals too.

personally ive kept/keep and bred most locaities including sorong,merauke,aru,biak,oxbil and wamena and apart from the humidity and size different i cant say theres a single difference in temperment in them.
I am slightly confused by your use of the word bar neck.....bar neck isnt a locality of scrub python. its simply a patten on 2 localities which are sorongs and meraukes, but not all of them have proper barnecking.