I want to feed my corn live?!

[crotalis40741]

I have read this a few times, and I must say I am your "Sadistic Creep" I have one that is really picky and I really don't care as long as she eats. And as for the rest if I feel like feeding live I do once in a while. I am not and will not argue this either good or bad. As I see it, it comes down to personal preference and what you see as ok and what is not. Personal attacks on someone because they ask something or if something doesn't match up to what you believe in is no more right than what you are looking down upon. So upon writing this and seeing all that has went on I am going to ask to have my account deleted. This is supposed to be a place of learning and meeting with fellow snake lovers. I have met some great people on here and appreciate all the help with my sick snakes. Which btw were never fed live.
I wish you all the best with your snakes and projects.
bob

 

[Checkersthecornsnake]

aw Bob but we all you your wisdom and knowledge if your really are going, do you mind if i contact you through email or what not in order to talk about various issues, i promise i will try my best not to be a nusence

 

[Checkersthecornsnake]

various issues that may arise i might add, none right now

 

[starsevol]

I have read this a few times, and I must say I am your "Sadistic Creep" I have one that is really picky and I really don't care as long as she eats. And as for the rest if I feel like feeding live I do once in a while. I am not and will not argue this either good or bad. As I see it, it comes down to personal preference and what you see as ok and what is not. Personal attacks on someone because they ask something or if something doesn't match up to what you believe in is no more right than what you are looking down upon. So upon writing this and seeing all that has went on I am going to ask to have my account deleted. This is supposed to be a place of learning and meeting with fellow snake lovers. I have met some great people on here and appreciate all the help with my sick snakes. Which btw were never fed live.
I wish you all the best with your snakes and projects.
bob

Bob I am sorry you feel that way. But my opinion is my opinion and not likely to change anytime soon. Other opinions may differ and differing opinions should not be the cause of departure from a place like this. A picky snake is one thing, but one that has no issue eating thawed is another to me. I wish you well in your future.

 

[Nanci]

There is a difference between feeding a live mouse to a picky eater and feeding a live mouse to a snake that has never even known there _is_ such a thing as a living, breathing mouse.

Furthermore, I, myself, can't really find fault with experienced, long-term keepers who have colonies of mice that feed live out of convenience. I, personally, would not take an unnecessary risk with my snakes' health.

The _real_ toll of these repetitive SSDD live feeding, cohabbing, whatever controversial threads is the conflict they cause between members who otherwise consider themselves friends. I highly doubt _anyone_ considers you a sadistic creep, Bob.

 

[starsevol]

There is a difference between feeding a live mouse to a picky eater and feeding a live mouse to a snake that has never even known there _is_ such a thing as a living, breathing mouse.

Furthermore, I, myself, can't really find fault with experienced, long-term keepers who have colonies of mice that feed live out of convenience. I, personally, would not take an unnecessary risk with my snakes' health.

The _real_ toll of these repetitive SSDD live feeding, cohabbing, whatever controversial threads is the conflict they cause between members who otherwise consider themselves friends. I highly doubt _anyone_ considers you a sadistic creep, Bob.

For what it's worth, I don't ....

 

[Susan]

In addition to Beth's points, live mice carry parasites. It costs $200 at a minimum to deworm a snake.

I'm really sorry Nanci, but I don't know where you got your information, but $200 is quite extreme for a deworming of a single snake. Exaggeration to make a point doesn't fly for some of us in the profession of veterinary medicine.

Beth, you have the right to your opinions, but to vehemently attack others that don't agree with you isn't right. I feed live, and more than to just the ones that refuse to eat F/T. I guess I'm a sadistic creep also.

Checkersthecornsnake, I see nothing wrong with wanting to learn. Yes, you can view video upon video, but to some, first-hand knowledge is the only way to satisfy that natural curiosity in all of us. Go ahead and feed your snake a live fuzzy but make note of everything you feel about doing it and then report back to us.

Bob, please don't leave, I fully understand your position here and you are not alone. For the vocal members to say that they speak for an entire membership of almost 22,000 is not right. But since that is one of the things going wrong in this country as a whole, I would expect no less on this forum. The majority is just tired of arguing unless they are simply fed up with all the BS out in the real world that they have to deal with day in and day out. I'm at that stage tonight, so excuse me.

And as for karma getting us sadistic creeps, does having to kill not one, but two super pets that you have worked with for over 12 years, in the same day, not an hour apart, then having to try to console their owners while you're also crying your eyes out count? The rest of the day consisted of getting my arms ripped to shreds by hellcats and being thrown around the room by large vicious dogs. I think I'm about even for feeding those live rodents as happens in Nature all the time.

PS...I would appreciate it that the next time someone wants me to look at a thread to get my opinion, please supply a link as hunting for threads when the title I'm given is incomplete and inaccurate and I have no clue where to even start looking for it only pissed me off.

 

[starsevol]

I'm really sorry Nanci, but I don't know where you got your information, but $200 is quite extreme for a deworming of a single snake. Exaggeration to make a point doesn't fly for some of us in the profession of veterinary medicine.

Beth, you have the right to your opinions, but to vehemently attack others that don't agree with you isn't right. I feed live, and more than to just the ones that refuse to eat F/T. I guess I'm a sadistic creep also.

Checkersthecornsnake, I see nothing wrong with wanting to learn. Yes, you can view video upon video, but to some, first-hand knowledge is the only way to satisfy that natural curiosity in all of us. Go ahead and feed your snake a live fuzzy but make note of everything you feel about doing it and then report back to us.

Bob, please don't leave, I fully understand your position here and you are not alone. For the vocal members to say that they speak for an entire membership of almost 22,000 is not right. But since that is one of the things going wrong in this country as a whole, I would expect no less on this forum. The majority is just tired of arguing unless they are simply fed up with all the BS out in the real world that they have to deal with day in and day out. I'm at that stage tonight, so excuse me.

And as for karma getting us sadistic creeps, does having to kill not one, but two super pets that you have worked with for over 12 years, in the same day, not an hour apart, then having to try to console their owners while you're also crying your eyes out count? The rest of the day consisted of getting my arms ripped to shreds by hellcats and being thrown around the room by large vicious dogs. I think I'm about even for feeding those live rodents as happens in Nature all the time.

PS...I would appreciate it that the next time someone wants me to look at a thread to get my opinion, please supply a link as hunting for threads when the title I'm given is incomplete and inaccurate and I have no clue where to even start looking for it only pissed me off.

Susan, the name calling was completely out of line. There are some things that are better left unsaid. I just feel that all animals deserve as humane a life and death as we can give them, so to me to feed live unneccesarily is a very sad and tragic thing. As much as we love our dogs and cats, smaller things can feel pain and fear too. And as cruel as humans can be to dogs and cats, animals that are considered nothing but food are treated far worse. You just don't see the kinds of things you see on utube happening as much with dogs and cats, set to music and laughter. I am really sorry about the day you've had, sounds like it really sucked. I still cry about animals I lost years ago. But at least they died loved and remembered.
I am also embarassed to say this, but I don't know how to do a link. No idea, believe it or not I have never done one before.

Checkersthecornsnake, do what you want. But please, I don't want to know about it. I don't want to watch any videos. I just would rather not know about it. We don't have to be friends....

 

[Darcpixie]

I tried feeding live to a picky ball python once. ONCE. A, it got out of the container on the way home. B, it bit me! C, she didn't take it anyway! I fed the mouse to her brother. She started eating f/t within two weeks.

Was I WORRIED? YES!! I have 20+ snakes now, they all eat f/t. Some are absolute animals about it, and constrict the bejebus out of the prey every time. Sometimes, I fight with them for it with tongs. Gives them their exercise!

Please wait until you have your snake for longer and are better able to determine the risks. Not only do I know what each one of my kiddos likes, but how they take their prey, when they aren't interested, and how best to present it.

I know this has gone places it shouldn't but this is similar to the 3/3/3 rule. Is it a hard/fast breeding rule? No. Is it a good guideline? Yes. Same here... These snakes are very good f/t eaters. Not all snakes are. Instead of messing with a good thing, gain more experience, THEN evaluate. Not next week, or next month, maybe not even next year... Just enjoy your snake and its SAFE feeding response for now.

Bob, don't you dare go.

 

[Nanci]

I'm not exaggerating the cost of deworming, but then again I don't work for a vet and get drugs/ labs/ fecals at a discount. My vet charges $70 or so for an office visit. Them there's the initial Grams stain and fecal. Then oral and possibly injectable medications. Then a follow up fecal. Then another round of dewormers, then another fecal...Yes, when I said $200 I meant $200. For the average person without connections.

 

[ceduke]

realistically, these mice are raised for feeding i cant imagine they have parasites, especially cause i will get them from a very reliable source (Reptilia a very well known reptile company around here).

I had to laugh here, I pick one snake and run a fecal annually, and the only time it has ever come up positive was after a snake has eaten ONE live mouse, from a VERY reputable source.

Since the snake wasn't a strong eater at that point, treating the worms was a PAIN IN THE BACKSIDE....but it didn't cost anywhere near $200... $50 for the exam, $15 for the fecal, $15 for oral meds, $15 follow up fecal. Regardless of the cost, it was a HUGE pain and I would never want that to happen again.

You have been given a lot of reasons not to do it, but if you're going to, then just do it. As you have seen, this is a hot topic here. If you run a search, you'll find that we have this discussion about once a month. It gets old.


Edited to add: While I feel strongly that feeding live just for the "wow factor" or whatever is pretty gross, a stubborn feeder is another thing entirely. When I've dealt with a stubborn feeder (my precious Indigo snake fasted for awhile after he was shipped to me) I tried a bunch of things, with live prey being a last resort. If the live prey had been what it took to get him eating (it wasn't), I wouldn't have thought twice about feeding him live indefinitely.

 

[Susan]

I'm not exaggerating the cost of deworming, but then again I don't work for a vet and get drugs/ labs/ fecals at a discount. My vet charges $70 or so for an office visit. Them there's the initial Grams stain and fecal. Then oral and possibly injectable medications. Then a follow up fecal. Then another round of dewormers, then another fecal...Yes, when I said $200 I meant $200. For the average person without connections.

I am truly sorry that your vet is raping you with his/her prices. When I look at vet costs for other people, I go by what they are charged, not by my discounts. Ceduke's prices are more reasonable. Our emergency clinics that are open at night and on holidays charge $60-$75 for an office visit. $70 to walk into the hospital for a regular visit is ridiculous IMO. I can understand the Gram stain and 1 fecal, maybe the last fecal to make sure everything is gone, but 3 is overkill and totally unnecessary IMO. And the charges for the medication, both oral and injectable, for two doses for even the largest snake shouldn't run more than $30 at the most to treat for nematode, trematode and protozoan parasites. Again I apologize that the outrageous pricing your vet charges is what you think is the norm for veterinary care. May your vet's Mercedes blow an engine, his boat sink and the IRS want an audit of his business and personal accounts.

 

[Shiari]

Our emergency clinics that are open at night and on holidays charge $60-$75 for an office visit.

Over here, the local e-clinics charge $100 if you come in *before* midnight, and $125 if you come in after midnight.

I took my dog there during one of his 'episodes', and for the exam so that he could get some SQ fluids and a dose of metacam came to $225. AND the vet had no 'bedside' manner to speak of. All around unpleasant trip.

I'm just glad that my snakes *so far* have been fairly healthy and not cost me an arm, leg, and spleen.

 

[KingCrimson<3]

Just avoid New York City vets at all costs. Last time I took my dog in for his annual check-up, I walked out almost $500 poorer.

For me, feeding F/T is a matter of convenience. If you want to feed a live fuzzy, and your snake doesn't take it, that means that you then have to either a) freeze said fuzzy to save it for later in which case it is no different that F/T or b) watch the poor creature starve to death because it is not old enough to care for itself and stay warm. The latter is far more cruel IMO than feeding F/T or pre-killed, especially because even a blow to the head or severed cervical vertebrae means the mouse is not aware that it is being eaten.

 

[Mia&Calluu]

I know I'm new but I do agree with the whole F/T perspective. I mean honestly I have a strong feeder but if for some reason she doesn't eat I can always refreeze and wait a few days. The mouse isn't going to suffer and I don't have to worry about it hurting my snake and possibly killing her when the mouse fights back.

Another way to look at it also is that I live were finding frozen can be a pain and they do not sell live. I buy in bulk a few weeks at a time just in case the store runs out.
Unless you are raising the mice yourself my situation would be quite difficult for anyone feeding live.

I won't embed for those who do not want to watch but this is a snakes first live feeding http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E08QY1-DCcY

and in this vid (not good quality) the mouse fights back biting the snake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTvHYG02Hks

for all we know in the last video the snake could have gotten an infection or seriously hurt.

 

[Haarstad]

Actually you are wrong, i may not no forum etiquette, but i am here to make friends, i am trying to come across as intellectual because im not one of those sick ****head teens that are just sadistic *hits and enjoy watching animals killing each other. I want people to know that, also i agree i did approach the responses wrong and i apologize, i should have backed off, although me as a person in real life am rare to back off to defend my view, and many people enjoy arguing with me and respect it because im very reasonable if you give me a legit reason. (such as the one i quoted earlier)

Sorry if i have offended anyone

Saying a type of teen is very judgmental, Anyone can think feeding live is a thrill, not just teens. There are a lot of teens on the forum and generally teens are more curious but being curious is not feeding live for the thrill. I have never fed my corn live and i never will. I have fed my boa live but that's because she is a picky eater.

If someone wants to feed live, i learned on this forum that changing their mind is like pulling teeth. It rarely happens. People can do what they want and there is nothing we can do about it. people have different views on stuff and that's completely fine, if you have a serious question about feeding live then go ahead and post it but there are hundreds of threads on the views of feeding live so you should try to use the search function first. If you feed live for kicks and giggles, you probly are not going to change your ways because we want you to. Just don't even bother telling us that you are doing it, and don't try to justify what you're doing by saying it's better for the snake. Cause it is in no way better for the snake.

By having a pet snake in a cage, you are keeping free of disease in most cases (although disease and parasites can still happen in captivity). You are creating a safer environment. There is no reason for feeding live except for the reason of having a picky eater. If you want to feed live for the reason of it being more natural, then make a whole room a cage and fill it with hides galore, bring 4 mice in and let them breed, make your snake hunt for these mice and never hold your snake, that will be a little closer to having it in a natural environment.

Sorry for saying you a thousand times, i'm not actually referring to you, but people who want to feed live in general, it's just easier to say "you". I realize people can change their view on things and i'm proud of them, just thought i'd throw my opinion in here

 

[Miqote]

Hello Checkers,
I admit, I kind of skimmed through a lot of these posts. I just want to say that I too wanted my snakes to strike and coil! My baby snakes seemed to lack a vigor for eating that my 2 bigger snakes had. They preferred to eat alone, just set down the mouse and leave it and they will slowly creep up, nose poke it a few times, and eat it daintily. It can take awhile, but I slowly helped my snakes gain more confidence and now they all strike and constrict like champs!

Basically, I started by stretching out their feeding days a bit. An extra 1-2 days will make them really hungry! Like I said, one of my snakes was pretty timid about eating so I had to start by just getting him comfortable with me being nearby. Then I got him to eat the mouse while the tongs were still grasping it. After that, I'd start wiggling it just a bit, or very slowly swinging it back and forth. This was the hardest since they never had to strike at anything before, and for a few weeks I had to eventually just stop and let them grab it normally, but in time they started striking! Just an inch or so away at first, but now they will launch across the tub to grab them!

Now, once they are striking, that's great. When they start getting a really good grip, you can gently "wrestle" the mouse, wiggle or tug it just a bit so they know they need to "kill" it. They might not do it on the first try, or it might be a really lame attempt! Keep trying! Practice makes perfect!

It sounds like your snake is already further along then my snakes were, so I'm sure you can "teach" your snake to coil like mine. I find now that they strike and coil they eat more vigorously and also are more active and confident and will come prowling out more. I guess this could also just be them growing up more, but I can't help that feel their confidence was boosted.

I hope this helped, and you will consider trying this before resorting to a live feeding! Just remember don't rush it.. for my snakes it took the better part of a year. I think if your snake had a live fuzzy it may not even coil it if it hasn't coiled before.

 

[VickyChaiTea]

Hello Checkers,
I admit, I kind of skimmed through a lot of these posts. I just want to say that I too wanted my snakes to strike and coil! My baby snakes seemed to lack a vigor for eating that my 2 bigger snakes had. They preferred to eat alone, just set down the mouse and leave it and they will slowly creep up, nose poke it a few times, and eat it daintily. It can take awhile, but I slowly helped my snakes gain more confidence and now they all strike and constrict like champs!

Basically, I started by stretching out their feeding days a bit. An extra 1-2 days will make them really hungry! Like I said, one of my snakes was pretty timid about eating so I had to start by just getting him comfortable with me being nearby. Then I got him to eat the mouse while the tongs were still grasping it. After that, I'd start wiggling it just a bit, or very slowly swinging it back and forth. This was the hardest since they never had to strike at anything before, and for a few weeks I had to eventually just stop and let them grab it normally, but in time they started striking! Just an inch or so away at first, but now they will launch across the tub to grab them!

Now, once they are striking, that's great. When they start getting a really good grip, you can gently "wrestle" the mouse, wiggle or tug it just a bit so they know they need to "kill" it. They might not do it on the first try, or it might be a really lame attempt! Keep trying! Practice makes perfect!

It sounds like your snake is already further along then my snakes were, so I'm sure you can "teach" your snake to coil like mine. I find now that they strike and coil they eat more vigorously and also are more active and confident and will come prowling out more. I guess this could also just be them growing up more, but I can't help that feel their confidence was boosted.

I hope this helped, and you will consider trying this before resorting to a live feeding! Just remember don't rush it.. for my snakes it took the better part of a year. I think if your snake had a live fuzzy it may not even coil it if it hasn't coiled before.

This post explains things very very well.

As someone who has had to feed live, I can tell you right now it's not cool. If you sit down and actually think about what is happening it's awful. It is painful, and it is terrifying for the mouse, ESPECIALLY fuzzies and pinkies who are often eaten alive. If they're lucky enough to be constricted their eyes bulge, they bite their tongues and bleed, they piss and themselves as their bones crack and organs bleed, kicking and if they can screaming, every time they exhale the snake squeezes tighter and tighter until they suffocate. This is not painless. This is not humane. This is not natural. It's not the snakes natural species of prey, it is not natural conditions under which the killing is done in the wild. It is 100% artificial. If you can avoid causing an ungodly amount of pain to an animal, why wouldn't you?

 

[ceduke]

Eeesh Vicky, that was a graphic (and of course very accurate) description of a live feed. It makes me nauseated when I've had to do it, but of course I have to watch to prevent harm to my snakes.

My corn started constricting around the time he switched to F/T hoppers. He's now a very dramatic eater, especially if I do the "zombie mouse dance" for him.

 

[VickyChaiTea]

I find a lot of people who feed live detach themselves from what's really going on and the real amount of pain they're causing. Sometimes a graphic description helps shock them into realizing and accepting the fact that it's not painless, no matter what anyone says.