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Somewhat new member/Having issues with members

i dont care what most people say, there are some really haughty members on here. no, i wouldnt call it a majority, but enough have written in a condscending text for it to warrant my attention. and if someone gets the vibe theyre being disparaged, or talked down to, who are we to say what theyre feeling isnt true, or is wrong, or hast no merit?


Before I go any further, I'm going to preface this with the fact that I tend to be blunt. I usually prefer to write things out in a short manner, though I do have my moments of waxing eloquent. So the following is meant, entirely, to be helpful.. but it's going to be written out simply because I've tried writing it more tactfully and it just comes off sounding snide.

So.

Your phrasing here, if that is the way you have written in the past, is probably why you've encountered, or think you have encountered, people being condescending.

"I don't care what (you) say", "it warrants my attention", etc. The entire paragraph is actually highly aggressive in word usage. Not vibes. Not tone. Outright word usage and phrasing. Faced with writing like this, there is an increased chance for aggressiveness to be returned, and thus you end up with a spiral of increasing snippiness.

Often, a lot of what (generic)you read tone-wise in a post is something (generic)you were the one to put there. You get out what you put in. If you think you read something condescending, you're going to have that in your brain and MORE things are going to look condescending to you. It's a confirmation bias.
 
I just read all the threads you have created or posted in and I can't find a single instance that, IMO, warrants this thread. Everyone answered your questions in a normal and decent manner and no one was condescending or in the slightest bit hostile.

Like I said, I may have been imagining it. Also, a previous poster mentioned that the feeling may have resulted from the simple fact that it is impossible to determine tone of voice. I wasn't trying to offend or attack anyone. I'm merely used to more talkative posters on other forums. :)
 
Before I go any further, I'm going to preface this with the fact that I tend to be blunt. I usually prefer to write things out in a short manner, though I do have my moments of waxing eloquent. So the following is meant, entirely, to be helpful.. but it's going to be written out simply because I've tried writing it more tactfully and it just comes off sounding snide.

So.

Your phrasing here, if that is the way you have written in the past, is probably why you've encountered, or think you have encountered, people being condescending.

"I don't care what (you) say", "it warrants my attention", etc. The entire paragraph is actually highly aggressive in word usage. Not vibes. Not tone. Outright word usage and phrasing. Faced with writing like this, there is an increased chance for aggressiveness to be returned, and thus you end up with a spiral of increasing snippiness.

Often, a lot of what (generic)you read tone-wise in a post is something (generic)you were the one to put there. You get out what you put in. If you think you read something condescending, you're going to have that in your brain and MORE things are going to look condescending to you. It's a confirmation bias.

Very excellent points. The reason I posted this thread was because I did have it in my head that I was being "talked down" to, and therefore assumed everyone was doing it...which is why I wanted to discuss with other members why this was so. I doubted other members realized they were coming off that way.
 
I think the biggest thing with us newbies, is we all need to learn how to use the search on the forum :). Many questions have been asked twenty different ways already, and all have been answered twenty different times.

Now if I spend two days searching for an answer to a question or problem and I DON'T FIND IT, I then post it to get a fresh answer.

I also agree it gets annoying when people give newbies advice, and it becomes a dispute. Bottom line is, its advice take it or leave, don't cause a problem over it just because you don't like the recommendation being gave.

Over all I do think the majority of members try their best to be helpful.

If you had a few bad experiences posting (got nasty replies, etc) continue to post. Try, try again ... No question is dumb or bad. It's having a question and not asking it that is. ;)

We are all here to learn, even someone in the hobby for 10years can still learn something new on here.

I will keep that in mind. :)
 
I'm sure everyone will agree, I'm the queen of questions. Actually I need to use search vs just asking my questions.

I've never run into anyone rude here and I've asked too many questions to count.

I hope you don't leave b/c there are so many knowledgable people here. I finally became a paying member b/c I know I've learned well over $25 worth from this forum (and I like to be able to edit, lol!).

I too, agree that you never know how a person's tone is. That is one large problem with email, forums, etc.

This forum is also very enabling, so be aware!! I started out with 2 and I will have 9 when they all get shipped.

Hahaha. :D I understand the feeling. I've seen postings for Mexican Black Kingsnakes, and I have already decided the next reptile we get will be a MBK! :)
 
Very excellent points. The reason I posted this thread was because I did have it in my head that I was being "talked down" to, and therefore assumed everyone was doing it...which is why I wanted to discuss with other members why this was so. I doubted other members realized they were coming off that way.

Er... I think you missed part of my point. It's not that *they* are necessarily coming off that way, but that *you* think they are. Sometimes, yes, there are condescending things written. But if one *expects* so see condescension, one is going to see it even places it isn't....
 
Er... I think you missed part of my point. It's not that *they* are necessarily coming off that way, but that *you* think they are. Sometimes, yes, there are condescending things written. But if one *expects* so see condescension, one is going to see it even places it isn't....

No, no. I totally failed at trying to explain. I understood your point, but apparently didn't understand mine. X) I wanted members to be able to explain that they weren't being condescending, but that I may just be taking it that way. I put it generally, which made it seem like I was saying that members are unintentionally condescending. My apologies.
 
Many excellent points on both sides have been posted!

I consider myself a careful and tactful poster. I always proof my contributions a couple of times before posting, and use the spell check, too. So I get very upset with myself when I find an error or lack of clarity or empathy in any of my posts (and it STILL happens sometimes!). Thus I tend to notice similar items in other posts.

I realize it is very difficult to put yourself in another person's "shoes". That is especially true if you are new and unsure of yourself here, or when posting in an emotionally charged thread you are passionate about. But if you look back at a problematic thread later, when you are not as involved with it, you may (or may not) be able to see something in your own writing that might come off as aggressive or defensive, as Shiari noted. I have to admit that it raises my hackles a little when I come across posts from people who seem to have a bit of a chip on the ol' shoulder, too. But I try to ascribe it to just "one of those Internet things" because you can't get the real tone, gestures, and other body language to give you the real intent behind the words. Of course there are posts that are truly rude or aggressive by anyone's standards!

I guess my main suggestion is to try to ignore those who don't play well with others (or are just having a bad day for some reason) while enjoying the majority of our members who have a lot of knowledge and who really enjoy interacting with others who share some of the same interests, but often bring diverse ideas and opinions you might not have thought of yourself.
 
Before I go any further, I'm going to preface this with the fact that I tend to be blunt. I usually prefer to write things out in a short manner, though I do have my moments of waxing eloquent. So the following is meant, entirely, to be helpful.. but it's going to be written out simply because I've tried writing it more tactfully and it just comes off sounding snide.

So.

Your phrasing here, if that is the way you have written in the past, is probably why you've encountered, or think you have encountered, people being condescending.

"I don't care what (you) say", "it warrants my attention", etc. The entire paragraph is actually highly aggressive in word usage. Not vibes. Not tone. Outright word usage and phrasing. Faced with writing like this, there is an increased chance for aggressiveness to be returned, and thus you end up with a spiral of increasing snippiness.

Often, a lot of what (generic)you read tone-wise in a post is something (generic)you were the one to put there. You get out what you put in. If you think you read something condescending, you're going to have that in your brain and MORE things are going to look condescending to you. It's a confirmation bias.

Actually, Shiari, I've been fairly "laid-back" in my "phrasing" & "word usage". I'm a mellow fellow unless provoked. I fail to see reason in your rhyme. I honestly don't see how my phrasing was more than strong, to the point of being aggressive.

My conflicts with other forum members have been in the cases of someone implying, in/not in so many words, that their snakes were somehow better because they are "designer" morphs, or from such & such breeder, and not a crappy little snake like little Timmy's petstore one. Or, when others have talked in a disparaging manner as to imply, intuitively, intentionally, or unknowingly that someone is not as intelligent as they are based on THEIR "phrasing" & "word usage". ETC. ETC.

Though intelligence is off topic, please people, don't assume because someone is not typing with the utmost of capitalization, punctuation, or even spelling that the person is of less mental capacity than you. They are most likely just less informed or less educated, or in my case LAZY. Which does in no way make them any lesser than you are. This is why this forum is here, atleast in my assumption, to educate FELLOW Corn Snake lovers about the world of their beloved snakes. I don't know about you Shiari, but I myself like to help others, to share any wealth and blessing of information I have with others less informed.

And Shiari, I've spoken to others about this post you've ever so "eloquently" posted and made me fortunate enough to read. Most everyone agreed it was indeed "snide". I know you personally have tried to school senior members on here whom may or may not need it. MYguess is, and this is just an inference, an inkling, but my guess is that someone who's been raising, breeding, and generally keeping snakes for 2-3 decades doesn't need your opinion on the way they "do business", UNLESS they ask you. And, that's just my opinion...so take it with a grain of salt, as I have your words. Ps- Forgive my typos, because frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.
 
I kind of followed the argument here. And I do think that I should give my opinion here. As a new member(Total newbie, having corns for only about a month).

The first thing I did after getting my snakes was goggling a lot of corn snake questions.
Yes, there was a lot of answers that I still needed to find but I already knew enough not to let them die.

The questions that I did not get answers for was asked here and was answered friendly and I had no feeling that I was being rude to.

What I do suggest for newbies(such as me) is googling all their questions before asking as a lot of questions can easily be solved by a simple google search or reading a newbie guide on basic care. We should try not to unnecessary ask stupid questions that the answers can easily be found.

I do believe (out of experience) that if you really tried hard to find the answer before posting it, that it will be answered friendly by the more experienced members.
 
My conflicts with other forum members have been in the cases of someone implying, in/not in so many words, that their snakes were somehow better because they are "designer" morphs, or from such & such breeder, and not a crappy little snake like little Timmy's petstore one. Or, when others have talked in a disparaging manner as to imply, intuitively, intentionally, or unknowingly that someone is not as intelligent as they are based on THEIR "phrasing" & "word usage". ETC. ETC.

I don't see this being anything than further than the truth. When people state that they have gotten a snake such and such store and it has a problem then yes they will be advised to see a private breeder for their next snake. Are we always going to prefer someone buy a snake from a private breeder? Yes because that breeder generally cares for they snakes were pet stores don't usually. And they are usually healthier.

Look at all of the look at this treasure I found at (big box) store threads. And even if they are normals we all love to see those beauties to. Check out the "My Gimmy" thread I posted yesterday. I was proud to show of my normal, not designer baby. And when you see I got this baby from so and so. I think is way to promote the person you got it from. Believe me if someone got a snake from a breeder that was not top notch you would not see that.
 
I got a lot of heat for buying a snake from Petco, and told to go to reptile shows or get from a breeders! I dont think it matters where you got your snake as long as you love them and care for them properly! I have seen what Vis is talking about. I browsed this forum and truly was afraid to ask questions at first because of some of the responses given to other newbies!
 
-sigh-

So much of the "misunderstanding" comes from wording choice and how you read the thread. If you go into every response looking for an insult, or expecting a fight, most times you will find it. Honestly I doubt the person replying to the thread bothered to read it back to them selves before they posted. Many, many times I start to write something and figure maybe it could be read a little more harsh than it is, so I edit a bit.

However, sometimes I post things that are intentionally harsh because clearly someone is not getting it, not listening, not caring, so it's time for a little tough love. Those times are typically prefaced with a "This is going to be harsh but..."

More often that not people are just tried of repeating themselves on easily answered/searched questions. I know Bitsy for one is AMAZING with new members. She has a ton of experience and is a great source of knowledge.

Where you also run into problems is when you post sound, solid, tried and true tested information and someone says "well I found this care sheet that says corn can eat carrots so imma do that instead." People tend to get a bit angry when a person follows clearly BAD advice blindly. All of us here are very dedicated to our animals. There is a reason behind the recommendations, considerations, and advice that is given out.

That brings me back around to if every single thing comes off as an insult you have to wonder if it's you? Are you reading things looking for a conflict? Take a breath and re-read the offending post. Consider maybe it's not someone being snippy, but rather someone passionate about their animals trying to convey that.
 
The reason "we" are down on petstore snakes, as a general rule, is because those babies come from wholesalers, sometimes right out of the egg. There is no guarantee they have ever eaten. The staff at most big box stores don't have the foggiest idea of how to start a hatchling, or how to even pick up a hatchling. The hatchlings are cohabbed, not heated properly, fed crickets, covered with mites- it is one thing for an experienced snake keeper to spot a gem and whisk it out of a pet shop before too much damage can be done, but a whole other thing for a new keeper to try to start off with a snake that may be compromised by mites and may have never eaten in its life. So when things go down hill, the first place that person turns is here, and we have to try to rescue the snake remotely, and trust me, that person loves the doomed new baby snake with all their heart.

If you buy from a breeder, let's look at my babies for example. They get handled at least every five days. They eat, willingly, with no tricks, FT, every single time. They have a health guarantee and tech support. They are guaranteed to get to your home and thrive, or I will do whatever it takes to make sure they do.

It is true, breeders' names get mentioned. People like to get credit for the babies they produce. People who like a snake know where to look now or the next season to get one like it. It isn't so much showing off what you have as bragging up the person who made it, if that makes sense. Because it takes planning and luck and hard work to make snakes you can be proud of.

Now, normals. If you look at the Most Prized thread, you will see that the one snake I will run into a burning building and save, the snake I would keep if I could only have one, is a normal.
 
So I'm not saying a "big box" store snake can't do just fine. Many can and do. And are loved just as much as "famous maker" snakes. But it _is_ a risk we want people to be aware of. The snakes themselves aren't faulty, it's the whole snake mill aspect that makes them risky to deal with.
 
I have to admit, Piglet was thin when we got him and we did nurse him back to health. We also lucked out with him being a coral snow and paradox. We got lucky. I havent bought another snake from petco or any big name stores.

I have gotten to rescues from a mom and pop local pet store that we have nursed back to health. both of which are pythons. one a ball and one spotted.

I bought 2 corns from this same shop that have came in as trades, both are really healthly. They are shy eaters and takes a lot patiences when feeding. Both are healthy

I recently recieved 2 boblings for Bob that I have to admit were perfect and bigger than the ones I bought previously. Both eat perfect and great temperment I also recieved in the same delievery a yearling from Rob.

I will admit now I will not buy from Petco unless I found one I absolutely had to have. I plan on next season getting a few more boblings.

I got the prettiest lil normal from Bob, she is amazing! And she was a last minute pick!
 
I bought a snake from a pet shop, a mom and pop shop which I mistakenly thought was safer. I got a sick snake, and it died on me, despite my best efforts. It was very painful, and not something I would wish on anyone. So I will always recommend a breeder with a good reputation instead of a pet store.

And on to the actual topic of this thread, I have seen some of what you are talking about. Some topics are just more volatile and people feel strongly about the topic. I can understand that. I did receive one response when I was trying to help my snake that really really hurt. But I went back and read it today, and it wasn't half as bad as I had thought when I was already upset. When someone is already worried and upset about their snake or husbandry, it's much easier to take things wrong because you emotions are high. Just like it's easy to dismiss someone's seemingly paltry worries when a question has been asked a thousand times before.

And I did ask a few stupid questions, simply because I worry. I knew the answer, but I wanted reassurance I was doing the right thing. Sorry to all you who had to put up with me!
 
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