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Somewhat new member/Having issues with members

visceralrepulsion said:
Actually, Shiari, I've been fairly "laid-back" in my "phrasing" & "word usage". I'm a mellow fellow unless provoked. I fail to see reason in your rhyme. I honestly don't see how my phrasing was more than strong, to the point of being aggressive.

My conflicts with other forum members have been in the cases of someone implying, in/not in so many words, that their snakes were somehow better because they are "designer" morphs, or from such & such breeder, and not a crappy little snake like little Timmy's petstore one. Or, when others have talked in a disparaging manner as to imply, intuitively, intentionally, or unknowingly that someone is not as intelligent as they are based on THEIR "phrasing" & "word usage". ETC. ETC.

Though intelligence is off topic, please people, don't assume because someone is not typing with the utmost of capitalization, punctuation, or even spelling that the person is of less mental capacity than you. They are most likely just less informed or less educated, or in my case LAZY. Which does in no way make them any lesser than you are. This is why this forum is here, atleast in my assumption, to educate FELLOW Corn Snake lovers about the world of their beloved snakes. I don't know about you Shiari, but I myself like to help others, to share any wealth and blessing of information I have with others less informed.

And Shiari, I've spoken to others about this post you've ever so "eloquently" posted and made me fortunate enough to read. Most everyone agreed it was indeed "snide". I know you personally have tried to school senior members on here whom may or may not need it. MYguess is, and this is just an inference, an inkling, but my guess is that someone who's been raising, breeding, and generally keeping snakes for 2-3 decades doesn't need your opinion on the way they "do business", UNLESS they ask you. And, that's just my opinion...so take it with a grain of salt, as I have your words. Ps- Forgive my typos, because frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.
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I felt ecaxtly the same about your wording as Shiari, though I would not say it is aggressive, but quite strong at least. The quoted post above, especially the last part, takes it a bit further though. Would you mind telling if you consciously added a dose of sarcasm or is it just the way you word stuff? If it's the latter, I can exactly tell you why the last part oozes sarcasm if you are willing to adjust your writing so you won't be talked to in a way you don't like. And English is not even my mother's tongue so it must be obvious.

Being too lazy to take efforts to punctuate and capatilize your posts in a way they are readable, while you actually can, breaths a bit of disrespect for your fellow members. If you want others to take time to answer your questions or to say how lovely your corn is, you'd better start getting of that lazy butt and make readible posts, like the one above. This is said in general but since you yourself said that you are lazy, you are probably gonna feel addressed. Sorry if I hurt your feelings with that.

Oh and Shiari is great to discuss with and not at all condescending or what ever you are saying, she is a darling, even if she doesn't agree on stuff :p
 
Nanci said:
The reason "we" are down on petstore snakes, as a general rule, is because those babies come from wholesalers, sometimes right out of the egg.
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And not only all of that, which I think is the most important reason to buy from a breeder (health guarantees, etc...).

But, another reason I like buying form a breeder is that by doing so I am directly supporting that breeder and the reptile community as a whole, as opposed to supporting a big box corporation where who knows where your money goes to after purchasing a snake from them. I know if I were to buy a snake from Nanci for example, my money would be going directly to Nanci.

So in a similar manner, I can somewhat understand buying from a mom and pop type store, but only if you know the owners, know about their care of the snakes, know where the snakes came from, maybe they bred the snakes themselves, etc... But I just prefer buying straight from the breeder. Generally better value, better quality, better health.
 
For those of you who don't want to read my entire post, feel free to just read the bold sentences and you'll get the just of what i'm talking about.

I'm just going to throw my two cents into the mix. I got Whitey, my snow corn snake, from Petco and I did all the research beforehand and I knew the dangers of buying from a big chain pet store and that's why I handled him 3 different times before purchasing him. First handle was to check for temperament and anything obviously wrong with him. Second time I checked scales, eyes, nose, mouth, belly, and vent. pretty much everything i thought to check at the time. The third handling was when I finally purchased him and since he still seemed in good health I felt comfortable having him. While I hadn't seen him eat yet I talked with the person who had claimed to be the one feeding him and he seemed like a knowledgeable guy and I'm usually a good judge of character when it comes to strangers. My point is that with the help of these forums and people like you I knew what to look for and in my opinion I got a wonderful snake for a pretty decent price.

Now to the other topic. I live in upstate NY pretty much at the center of the state. I've checked the internet, phone books, and I've asked people who have snakes in my area. There are no breeders within 25 miles of where I live and I doubt I would be able to find one within 50 miles. Pet stores like Petco and Petsmart are pretty much my only option unless I choose buy online. I'm not saying buying online is a bad thing but with buying online you never get to handle the snake and actually look at it for yourself. Now let's say for arguments sake there was a breeder about 55 miles from my house. That's 110 miles round trip. My car gets, at best, 29mpg. That's nearly 4 gallons of gas everytime I want to go to this hypothetical breeder. My point this time, I don't know about the rest of you but I don't have the time, money, or patience to drive that far.

I'm also going to share a story. Petsmart recently opened a new location near me so I wanted to check it out just out of curiosity. I walked in and it was clean, the staff was friendly upon walking in. I looked around found the reptile dept. and there was a very nice girl about my age who worked there and she was petting one of the turtles. I asked her a question I already knew the answer to just to see if she was actually knowledgeable and turns out she actually knew the answer and commented from her own experience with the product I was asking about. I asked her if I could handle the corn snake they had on display and she immediately opened up the display and pulled him out. We got to talking about the snakes and about common problems with them, she told me she herself owns a ball python. She know much about morphs, they had what in my opinion looked like an Okeetee marked as a normal, but regardless she knew what she was talking about and I could tell she had a passion for the animals she looked after there. I guess my point is while as a whole these chain stores are just in it for the money, the people who actually care for the animals are usually good people and do actually take good care of them. This of course is just my experience. Other people may have different experiences.
 
The petsmart near me sells all their corns for $69.99 so I could get the same low-end morph shipped to me from a breeder and know more about the animal. I could know it's parentage, it's feeding history. I can (usually) trust that it is healthy and I can ask questions about temperament.

That said, I *do* have/had 5 snakes from petco. A snow, two hypos, an almost-sunglow and the charcoal-thingy. Three of these I got early on, and the hypos recently because they were oddballs, and I'm a sucker for oddballs. I watched these snakes for weeks first to make sure they were healthy and mite-free. A real concern is that someone who is relatively new isn't necessarily going to see some of the more subtle signs of ill snake. Was at petco yesterday looking at their corns, and I noticed one of them wasn't looking quite right. When I handled him he felt "mushy". And then the store owner told me that, corporate policy now, he couldn't allow me to handle the corns. So you may not get to do that much longer from the chain stores either. :/ Which sucks.
 
This is veering off topic, but since we don't have a rule against that, here I go!

Eventually, if you continue on with cornsnakes, you will probably become interested in genetics. You may want the latest, greatest morph. You may want a no longer "rare" but still uncommon in the pet trade morph. You may want to buy snakes to grow up to start a project of your own. You will not be able to find what you need at a pet store. You're going to have to either visit a larger show, or take the leap and buy a snake on-line.

It _sounds_ scary, buying a snake, sight unseen, except for pictures, but after the first time it's a breeze!! Shipping, with a shipper who knows how to pack and ship a snake, is routine. You will be able to find a breeder who can describe the personalities of each hatchling. Some people want the tamest hatchling, over looks. Some people want the best example of the morph. Some want the best feeder. Some want the biggest one. I have done side-by-side comparison shots of virtually identical hatchlings to help someone make a decision. I have been left to choose a hatchling for someone based on the traits they hope for in an adult. What I'm saying is, even if you can't see and hold the hatchling (or adult) before you buy it, with a breeder who is willing to take the time with you, you should still be able to be thrilled with your new baby.
 
Plus, using my hatchlings as an example, you will receive a printed out multi-page record of every meal, weight at five day intervals, every shed, etc. The snake will be registered with the American Cornsnake Registry, so you will be able to see the pedigree, at least back through the parents and possibly back through grandparents and beyond. Here's Candy Cane's pedigree. Pretty cool, plus, when this baby hatched out amel, which was a huge surprise, I was able to go back in the registry and find an uncle who was amel on one side, and found the source of the unsuspected amel gene.

I'm not saying it's impossible to buy a healthy baby at a pet shop. I'm saying, much of the time, you will get more complete knowledge of the baby's past habits and family history if you buy from a breeder. FWIW. It's important to me to know every detail about the genetic history because that will impact future pairings.
 
Nanci said:
And that is your cue to walk out the door. And stop looking.
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Yeeeeup. And I did that, after putting on my vet tech hat and informing him everything he was doing wrong for their care and how to rectify it. 3 of the corns in there had massively stuck sheds, too and had *supposedly* just come back from the vet for mites. And the vet missed those sheds and the mushy baby? Really?
 
Shiari said:
The petsmart near me sells all their corns for $69.99 so I could get the same low-end morph shipped to me from a breeder and know more about the animal.
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Ah well all the petstore near me sell corns for a flat price of $40 each. not to mention shipping costs from a breeder.
 
Take into consideration the cost of shipping will be $35-$60, depending on the breeder and the distance it has to go and the size of the packaging. So let's say $50 extra. Now the snake is going to live for 15-25 years. It really isn't much additional cost over the course of the snake's lifetime, to have your pick of the whole world of snakes, rather than the limited selection at a pet store.

In addition, eventually you _will_ run out of room. It may take years, but you will. Or your collection will grow to a size that it is no longer fun to care for. Either way, it is very, very hard to part with a snake that has been your friend, that you have raised from a baby, even if you find a wonderful new home for it. So your interests may have evolved, and you may want to add new genes, or the prettiest new morph, and be out of space. It's easier in the long run to make each new addition a conscious choice, something you are sure you can't live without, a morph so amazingly beautiful you have to have it, than to fill up your space and time with cheap, easily-available snakes.

I'm not saying the normals, amels, anerys, snows, etc. aren't beautiful and personable and loveable. They are. That's kind of the problem, if you don't remain content with the basics and want to expand.

When I got into snakes this round, as an adult, I started with a WC normal corn. Then a Cali king that was given as a gift. I was active on this forum, and read about genetics, and looked at the pretty pictures, but I felt at the time like I wanted one of each of every cool snake I saw. I thought cornsnakes were boring. The new species started trickling in. Nelsons Milksnake, Tri-colored hoggy, Florida King, and so on. Fortunately, I realized before my collection was _too_ eclectic that I actually _did_ like the plain old cornsnake the best. They are small, gentle, easy to care for, readily available, affordable. There are lots of genes and plenty of room for a person to strike out on their own and try to make a new gene combination, or to roll their own "designer morph" that they can't afford to buy. So just because you don't think at this point in time that you won't be interested in breeding, maybe only one special clutch a year, it's something many of us evolved into without intending to.
 
OK let me put my two cent in... Im am not totally against buying snakes from big chain stores.... However, the ones I recently recieve in the mail fron a breeder were overall healthlier, bigger and perfect eaters than the ones I got at the local mom and pop. They shed beautifully as well. I know their history which is a major plus. I also know their hets. Something you will not get will snakes from big chain stores. Ive seen really neat morphs at petco that the people had no idea what they were just that they were fancy. I really lucked out with Piglet but that was one time, not sure I would be always this lucky.

I got off topic sorry, recieving the snakes in the mail was a bit stressful, it was my first time. But the breeder walked me through every step. He even call the morning they were to be delievered!

Check the BOI before every purchasing a snake through a breeder online. Ask others if they have had experiences etc!

But if you see that Petco snake you just have to have... I would say go for it but be prepared to nurse it back to health! It took us 4 good months to get Piglet to his weight and a lot of tender loving care!
 
I am by no means an expert nor have the most experienced with snakes. I still ask questions almost everyday and I do educate myself constantly!
 
kathylove said:
I consider myself a careful and tactful poster. I always proof my contributions a couple of times before posting, and use the spell check, too. So I get very upset with myself when I find an error or lack of clarity or empathy in any of my posts (and it STILL happens sometimes!). Thus I tend to notice similar items in other posts.

I realize it is very difficult to put yourself in another person's "shoes". That is especially true if you are new and unsure of yourself here, or when posting in an emotionally charged thread you are passionate about. But if you look back at a problematic thread later, when you are not as involved with it, you may (or may not) be able to see something in your own writing that might come off as aggressive or defensive, as Shiari noted. I have to admit that it raises my hackles a little when I come across posts from people who seem to have a bit of a chip on the ol' shoulder, too. But I try to ascribe it to just "one of those Internet things" because you can't get the real tone, gestures, and other body language to give you the real intent behind the words. Of course there are posts that are truly rude or aggressive by anyone's standards!

I guess my main suggestion is to try to ignore those who don't play well with others (or are just having a bad day for some reason) while enjoying the majority of our members who have a lot of knowledge and who really enjoy interacting with others who share some of the same interests, but often bring diverse ideas and opinions you might not have thought of yourself.
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Well said Kathy and you are so right on not being able to see the person face or body language and I myself need to remember this too. Iam a very sensitive person and sometimes I think that pepole are just being mean too me when they really not.
 
i'm not advocating buying from chain pet stores. i'm just saying for some of us it may be the better choice. personally i dont care for breeding and i really don't plan on ever doing it and as far as more snakes...i don't plan on getting even 1 more for at least 5 years...so while i would have loved to have a blizzard from a breeder online (over $100), a snow from the local petco ($49 with tax), is just fine with me. :)
 
aaahh...why not...jmo anyway ;)

Bad enough for PetCo and PetSmart to sell them, but when WalMart does it truly will be the Apocalypse ;)

I don't care where people get their snakes, could care less what morph they keep, what breeder(s) they know, none of it. I still come here because A: I've always been here (1st inception Dec 2002 I think) and B: I just like snakes. With all the personalities over the years I just turn a deaf ear to the rude ones, or the know it all's. Sheesh not too hard to keep them anyway, so being a "know it all" on keeping corns is on par with coming in 7th in an 8 man race.

You get out of it what you put in to it. Don't take it, or other people too seriously. It's really just a corn snake forum
 
chris68 said:
Bad enough for PetCo and PetSmart to sell them, but when WalMart does it truly will be the Apocalypse ;)

I don't care where people get their snakes, could care less what morph they keep, what breeder(s) they know, none of it. I still come here because A: I've always been here (1st inception Dec 2002 I think) and B: I just like snakes. With all the personalities over the years I just turn a deaf ear to the rude ones, or the know it all's. Sheesh not too hard to keep them anyway, so being a "know it all" on keeping corns is on par with coming in 7th in an 8 man race.

You get out of it what you put in to it. Don't take it, or other people too seriously. It's really just a corn snake forum
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Amen my friend!! very well said
 
I got my friest corn snake from Pet Supplies Plus and I'm very happy with him and he is a great eater he was 69.99 dollars. He is sure worth the money thir is not a mean bone in his body. ;)
 
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