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Breeding Pair Wanted For Science Classroom

N

NC Corn Snakes

New member
I'm looking for a breeding pair of corn snakes for my high school biology classroom. I'm located in Franklin, TN so if anyone is local I would prefer that to shipping fees! I had a female okeetee and male snow corn at my old school and got some great babies. My students loved it! I have since relocated to Franklin, TN and am looking to give my students here a similar experience. They do not have to be a special blood line. Just looking for a good temperament so my students can handle them and potential to breed them. If the genetics is known it would be ideal so I can tie them into our genetics chapter and predict what the offspring will look like and then compare the prediction to reality! Thanks,
Michael
 
I would look for something other than corns to breed in TN. Even though it is for education the head of TN fish and game is not known for being reasonable.
 
I just realized the first part of my response was cut off. TN requires an expensive permit to keep and breed native species of reptiles, I believe even for educational purposes. What are you planning on doing with the resulting offspring each year?
 
Wow, a permit for corn snakes is new to me! I'll have to look into that. As far as the offspring I was planning on adopting them out to students who are interested (with parental consent!) and then selling the rest locally to supplement our budget. I'm not looking to make money in breeding as I know that is a lost cause. Just give my students a really neat experience and hopefully get some of them interested in animal husbandry. Thanks for the reply!
 
Yeah, you might be able to get away with having it in the class without a permit but the students would have to get permits to have them if they adopted them and if you were planning on selling them you definitely would need a permit. Maybe some of the other TN keepers here can point you to the state regs you need to look at. I know Knox in in TN as well a a couple of others.
 
You don't have to have a permit to own or breed corn snakes in TN, as long as they are captive bred. Keeping a record of them being CBB probably isn't a bad idea though.

I will note though, at shows and such they usually won't let you sell normals unless you can prove they're not wild caught. Pet stores sell them, and you legally can, you just need to be able to have documentation that they are captive bred. To avoid this alltogether, try getting some aneries or amels or something.
 
TWRA classifies non-venomous snakes as a Class 3 animal. Class 3 animals do not require permits to own or breed.
 
Forgot to add as long as they are captive bred as Kaminoke said. Capturing native wildlife is a no-no here. :)
 
bkelm18 and kaminoke,
Thanks for the info. It seemed crazy to me that they would require a permit for a corn snake. Totally understand the the no native policy. Are there any local reptile shows? In Raleigh, NC I was spoiled by two local shows a year! Thanks,
Michael
 
bkelm18 said:
TWRA classifies non-venomous snakes as a Class 3 animal. Class 3 animals do not require permits to own or breed.
Click to expand...

You are correct class 3 animals do not need a propagation permit but corn snakes are native to TN and therefore are Class 2 animals requiring a permit.

§ 70-4-403. Classifications:
(2) Class II--This class includes native species, except those listed in other classes;

TN also does not distinguish between wild type and morphs if you have what they consider to be native animals you need a permit to breed and sell them. TN also only considers down to the species level so to them the native black king is the same as a Florida king.
 
NC Corn Snakes said:
Are there any local reptile shows? In Raleigh, NC I was spoiled by two local shows a year! Thanks,
Michael
Click to expand...

Your closest show will probably be one of the Ky shows. There is one coming up in Cave City on the Sept 25th. The only TN show I have ever seen was in Nashville and the promoter was a scam artist and took a lot of money and ran.
The laws down there are why even the so called Memphis show is not even in TN it is across the river.
 
Khaman said:
You are correct class 3 animals do not need a propagation permit but corn snakes are native to TN and therefore are Class 2 animals requiring a permit.

§ 70-4-403. Classifications:
(2) Class II--This class includes native species, except those listed in other classes;
Click to expand...

Sorry, that's not correct. I've highlighted in red the portion you need to look into. Non-venomous reptiles are listed in Class 3, see below:

(3) Class III — This class requires no permits except those required by the department of agriculture, and includes all species not listed in other classes and includes, but is not limited to, those listed in subdivisions (3)(A)-(Q). The commission, in conjunction with the commissioner of agriculture, may add or delete species from the list of Class III wildlife by promulgating rules and regulations:




(A) Nonpoisonous reptiles and amphibians except caimans and gavials;




(B) Rodents — Gerbils, hamsters, guinea pigs, rats, mice, squirrels and chipmunks;




(C) Rabbits, hares, moles and shrews;




(D) Ferrets and chinchillas;




(E) Llamas, alpacas, guanacos, vicunas, camels, giraffes and bison;




(F) Avian species not otherwise listed, excluding North American game birds, ostriches and cassowary;




(G) Semi-domestic hogs, sheep and goats;




(H) All fish held in aquaria;




(I) Bovidae not otherwise listed;




(J) Marsupials;




(K) Common domestic farm animals;




(L) Equidae;




(M) Primates not otherwise listed;




(N) Bobcat/domestic cat hybrids;




(O) Hybrids resulting from a cross between a Class II species and a domestic animal or Class III species;




(P) Cervidae except white-tailed deer and wild elk. Elk originating from a legal source while held in captivity for the purpose of farming shall be regarded as Class III wildlife. All other elk shall be wild elk and shall be regarded as Class II wildlife. No person shall possess elk in captivity within the eastern grand division of the state as defined in § 4-1-202 without having documentary evidence indicating the origin of the elk being held. This documentary evidence will be presented to the agents of the department of agriculture or the wildlife resource agency upon request. Sale documentation of offspring of purchased elk is not required; and




(Q) Furbearing mammals, including those native to Tennessee, raised solely for the sale of fur;
Click to expand...
 
I see where you are getting it from but what the legal speak says is unless it lists a specific species in a different class it is still considered a Class 2 animal unless it is venomous or dangerous to human life then it is a Class 1 animal. Class 3 animals are non native, non venomous, and not inherently dangerous to human life such as ball pythons, boas and such this is why it exempts caimans because they are Class 1 animals.

I suggest contacting Walter Cook, he is the head of TWRA His e-mail address is: [email protected]
 
Khaman said:
I see where you are getting it from but what the legal speak says is unless it lists a specific species in a different class it is still considered a Class 2 animal unless it is venomous or dangerous to human life then it is a Class 1 animal. Class 3 animals are non native, non venomous, and not inherently dangerous to human life such as ball pythons, boas and such this is why it exempts caimans because they are Class 1 animals.

I suggest contacting Walter Cook, he is the head of TWRA His e-mail address is: [email protected]
Click to expand...

I know several people in TWRA and have spoken to them on this subject before. I work in a zoo. Trust me, corn snakes are not Class 2. You can disagree if you wish, but I know the law.
 
bkelm18 said:
I know several people in TWRA and have spoken to them on this subject before. I work in a zoo. Trust me, corn snakes are not Class 2. You can disagree if you wish, but I know the law.
Click to expand...

I agree with Khaman on this one, and I know several people in TN that were required to purchase the $250 per year permit to sell captive bred corn snakes, california kings, nelson's milks, etc. Several years ago I thought about vending captive bred colubrids at a show that was being held in Nashville, but when I called TWRA they told me I had to purchase the $250 per year permit to do this legally. Since I'm in KY and I am already paying $150 per year in my state, of course I passed on the TN permit.

Was this a recent move to make corn snakes class III animals? This is the first I've heard of this. I'm going to call the TWRA tomorrow when they are back in their offices and find out more on this. If a permit is no longer required to sell them that is news to me. I'll post any information that I receive from the TWRA.
 
Geez guys, we live here. :p

I know firsthand from associates at the TN wildlife commision and animal control that you do NOT need a permit to own corn snakes. The reason the have the Memphis Repticon in Southaven is because they like to showcase venomous snakes, which do require a permit in TN but not in MS. Do you really thing national companies like Petco would be able to sell corns here without requiring new owners to get a permit if it were illegal? No.
 
I just got off the phone with the TWRA... if anyone wants to know the right answer to the questions posted in this thread, contact Walter Cook directly at 615-781-6652. I wouldn't bother talking to anyone else at TWRA, they don't seem to know much about the topic. :shrugs:
 
After contacting TWRA's law enforcement office (615-781-6580) and asking if corn snakes were considered Class 2 or Class 3 animals I was told since they were native to TN they are Class 2 animals and that TN does not recognize morphs as being exempt from requiring a permit.

KY requires a $150/year propagation permit to breed or sell non morphed native snakes and a permit $75/three years to keep more than 5 non morphed native snakes if you do not have a propagation permit.

All of the large chain pet stores in KY have their propagation permits or are supposed to. The local Petco in BG got busted for selling normal corns without one and were fined their excuse was not knowing they had to get one. They assumed the corporate office took care of that. The big chain pet stores just don't tell their customers about the laws because it might affect their sales.

We in KY used to look at you guys and think the reptile keepers down there are so oppressed then about 6 years ago they came down on us but the noose is still not quite as tight as it is on you guys down there. We have an exception to morphs and the permits are not quite as expensive yet.

Just because you live there does not mean you can't be ignorant of the laws. TWRA is not going to broadcast your need for a permit they make money off of your fines. I mean look at Daytona, Fish and Game in FL probably made up a budget deficit writing tickets to people.

I don't care if you believe me or not. The info I have posted is factual. I have given you the phone number to call to verify it. All of this is for the OP anyway I did not want to see him get into trouble for going through with his plans without knowing the laws.
 
Khaman said:
After contacting TWRA's law enforcement office (615-781-6580) and asking if corn snakes were considered Class 2 or Class 3 animals I was told since they were native to TN they are Class 2 animals and that TN does not recognize morphs as being exempt from requiring a permit.

KY requires a $150/year propagation permit to breed or sell non morphed native snakes and a permit $75/three years to keep more than 5 non morphed native snakes if you do not have a propagation permit.

All of the large chain pet stores in KY have their propagation permits or are supposed to. The local Petco in BG got busted for selling normal corns without one and were fined their excuse was not knowing they had to get one. They assumed the corporate office took care of that. The big chain pet stores just don't tell their customers about the laws because it might affect their sales.

We in KY used to look at you guys and think the reptile keepers down there are so oppressed then about 6 years ago they came down on us but the noose is still not quite as tight as it is on you guys down there. We have an exception to morphs and the permits are not quite as expensive yet.

Just because you live there does not mean you can't be ignorant of the laws. TWRA is not going to broadcast your need for a permit they make money off of your fines. I mean look at Daytona, Fish and Game in FL probably made up a budget deficit writing tickets to people.

I don't care if you believe me or not. The info I have posted is factual. I have given you the phone number to call to verify it. All of this is for the OP anyway I did not want to see him get into trouble for going through with his plans without knowing the laws.
Click to expand...

To the OP... a possession permit for corns in TN is not required as long as they are not taken from the wild. Permit requirements are for those interested in selling, trading, or bartering the animals or their offspring.
 
Ok now this is just getting confusing. It's not that I'm arguing just for the sake of it or that I am naive enough to truly believe that I'm right solely because I live here, but I have had representatives from the TWRA and animal control in my home (nothing was wrong, just a neighbor afraid of snakes called and said I had a bunch of dangerous animals and "poisonous" snakes so they came for an inspection). I had about 12 corn snakes at the time, as well as several others. The guy from the TWRA did ask about the origins of my corn snakes, but once it was established that they were all CB he assured me and the animal control guy that everything I had was legal and healthy. So.... seeing as how I have no permit, this is now confusing because it contradicts what you are saying even though what you are saying makes sense.
 
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