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Ultra/amel

Reptileman81

Reptileman81

Future professional
So I just found out something interesting on iansvivarium.com. Ultra/amel is a Hybrid? I never knew this. So wouldnt that make every thing from their clutches hybrids too? I thought hybrids were not thought highly of in most of the corn snake world. Why is Ultra/amel excepted? I thought it was just another type of Hypo. Do iansvivarium have it listed wrong?
 
Yep and a few other morphs out there. You brought up a good point, what happened to all the normal looking babies out of all those clutches. They were sold as corn snakes, not hybrids. I think Ian's just took the preemptive move and labeled them hybrids after Don S. changed his website to say they were hybrids. Rich Z and a few others don't believe they are hybrids and many will continue to breed them as corns and label them as ultras.
 
I think it would help to clarify that the gene is suspected to have come from a hybrid project. This means that your ultra or ultramel might be something like 1/128 grey rat if it's seven generations away from the original. Ultra is so mixed into the general corn snake population that continuing to breed for it really can't be argued as "polluting the pure gene pool". Wild corns are likely to have some hybrid genes if you go back enough generations so to say that all ultra/ultramels are hybrid and not true corns seems a little odd to me. Also, that would mean that any corn that come from any project that ever even het ultra in the mix would be just as hybrid as todays homo ultra.
National Geographic figures that if you're of european ancestry, you likely have about 10% neanderthal DNA, does that make you feel less than pure human? :D
 
Josh - Here are two thread where it is debated greatly :

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120776&highlight=ultra+hybrid

This link takes you to page 20 of the debate where Rich Z has a lot to say. Read all of both threads and decide for yourself. I think in selling corns, if you know what you are selling is from ultra stock, where it carries the ultra gene or not, it would be honest and fair to tell your buyers that and let them decide if they want the snake or not.

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120832&page=20
 
I dont believe they are hybrids. From the information presented in those threads and talking with older breeders about it.

I think they should continue being breed and sold as corn snakes and label it just like you would do with any other morph and hets and ph etc
 
I don't believe it either. Or I refuse to because I love the look of Ultra lol. I'll let the professionals and people more 'in-the-know' than me decide for sure, but Ultra is considered by many to be a hybrid/result of a hybrid project. Many fans of the gene defend it, though, with good reason. Like every one else has said, I've yet to see an Ultra clutch that looks like anything other than a corn.
Gotta be honest though: I'm far more suspicious of Cinder, as drop dead gorgeous as that morph is...
 
Crazy Colubrids said:
I have yet to see any hybrid markers on any of my Ultramel corns or even the normals that come from them breedings.
Click to expand...

legitimatehypnotist said:
Like every one else has said, I've yet to see an Ultra clutch that looks like anything other than a corn.
Gotta be honest though: I'm far more suspicious of Cinder, as drop dead gorgeous as that morph is...
Click to expand...


Not everyone has said that. Look, I could care less if they are or not. One of my favorites is my Ultra Bloodred and I have a kick butt Ultramel Motley. They are both very "corn snake" looking. That said, at this point, I wouldn't imagine most ultramel clutches will produce mutant looking babies. However, go back and look at the first 1-2 generations of the ultramels and their subsequent siblings. There is where you will see it. Think about it, IF IF IF they are hybrids, they have been refined over the last 10 years or so so that now they are more corn snake looking right?

Pour 10 gallons of water in a pool, then pour 5 gallons of milk in it and you get a very "milky" looking solution, but add another 30,000 gallons of water in then you get what appears to water and most people have no clue there is any milk in the mix. Maybe that is a poor example, but hopefully you get the point I am trying to make.

Again, at this point, I could care less, just making the point that it makes sense not to see hybrid markers this far down the road.

dc
 
Camby nailed it. Some "jmho" ahead. I keep and breed Tequila Sunrise line stuff. When I bred the F1's there was nothing like them I could find to compare. The closest thing were in Don S' photo gallery under frosted creamsicles, the gray rat/corn mix. But they were more "extreme" versions of mine. But eventually it kind of clicked; my F2 results were just those from Dons frosted creams "watered down" aka with more corn snake blood. That the original Tequila Sunrise was heavily frosted and a proven ultramel anery a just kind of all brought it together

Again jmho and I'm definitely not saying ultramels and ultras are or aren't, but I sure think the line I work with is
 
There has been cornsnakes with yellow ratsnake in them, they were visually impossible to tell they were hybrids. No hybrid markers. they had to look at there DNA...
Why does it really matter honestly? Our snakes will never be in the wild. The only population that really even matters is the wild one.
 
I concur Hybreed, I don't think it really does matter. I'm a firm believer that many; if not most, of corn morphs originated from other 'Colubrids'. Also, remember that classifications of families and species are only defined by humans.
 
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