-
Hello!
Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.
Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....
Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.
Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.
My first corn snake. Help need advice please !!
- Thread starter AsherMeekins
- Start date
axis1
Fuhgeddaboudit!!!!
Wow! Definitely a cool video, as he does dispel a lot of myths usually disseminated by "petstore owners." Far from scientific, but I was surprised to hear him say "a minimum of 6 to 12 hours," but he did say it was "a good idea to leave them alone for the rest of the day and the next day they will be fine."
While I can see where you got your information, which is probably considered to be a reliable source (don't know as I don't frequent YouTube as much as most), I have no problem admitting I am wrong. But I definitely won't be handling MY little sneaky ones for at LEAST the first 3 days after a meal and while that may be too long in some people's eyes, I am NOT chancing a regurge OR even contributing to more stress on animals I love more than MOST PEOPLE!!!
Any of the more experienced of this forum care to chime in?
BTW, thanx for starting a cool debate! Nothing gets the juices flowing more than when someone starts some s@*t and we can ALL learn from it! :dgrin:
While I can see where you got your information, which is probably considered to be a reliable source (don't know as I don't frequent YouTube as much as most), I have no problem admitting I am wrong. But I definitely won't be handling MY little sneaky ones for at LEAST the first 3 days after a meal and while that may be too long in some people's eyes, I am NOT chancing a regurge OR even contributing to more stress on animals I love more than MOST PEOPLE!!!
Any of the more experienced of this forum care to chime in?
BTW, thanx for starting a cool debate! Nothing gets the juices flowing more than when someone starts some s@*t and we can ALL learn from it! :dgrin:
axis1
Fuhgeddaboudit!!!!
BTW (about Brian from Animal Bytes TV)
Just an interesting FYI - this guy Brian, who is quite personable, articulate, and even likeable, admits on one of his safari documentaries, that he is NOT a zoologist and "just a guy who loves animals" which clarifies a whole bunch!
Just an interesting FYI - this guy Brian, who is quite personable, articulate, and even likeable, admits on one of his safari documentaries, that he is NOT a zoologist and "just a guy who loves animals" which clarifies a whole bunch!
Corning
Member
So funny I just watched that video yesterday. I think he gives great advice. I just don't like the cheesy skits he throws in the videos. I skip the day after feeding him. And that's only cause he's still a baby. But otherwise I take him out every day.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
axis1
Fuhgeddaboudit!!!!
ADDENDUM to discussion!
Hi guys!
Hope you all had a great 3 day weekend!
Just wanted to point out a currently tenuous and potentially heartbreaking situation that someone is dealing with that may be from handling a hatchling too soon after eating and even though it was 72 hours. The owner appears to love her snake and has asked for advice in recent threads on how long after a snake eats should she be able to handle it. Just a real-life situation to counter what even some "experts" sometimes say. Check it out:
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143541&highlight=regurge
Please be aware that I am not taking any joy in a situation where a snake is in distress. I just would like to use this situation as an example to hopefully prevent this situation from occurring in the future!
Hi guys!
Hope you all had a great 3 day weekend!
Just wanted to point out a currently tenuous and potentially heartbreaking situation that someone is dealing with that may be from handling a hatchling too soon after eating and even though it was 72 hours. The owner appears to love her snake and has asked for advice in recent threads on how long after a snake eats should she be able to handle it. Just a real-life situation to counter what even some "experts" sometimes say. Check it out:
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143541&highlight=regurge
Please be aware that I am not taking any joy in a situation where a snake is in distress. I just would like to use this situation as an example to hopefully prevent this situation from occurring in the future!
Karl_Mcknight
Common Sense Holder
Handling has very little to do with a snake regurgitation. There are lots of people that wait for the snake to poop, and some people handle the next day.
I've had 5 snakes over a period of 40 years and never had a regurgitation with any of them.
The primary reasons for regurgitations in snakes is, 1. Food item too big for the snake, 2. Improper temps for digestion, 3. Intestinal blockage or illness. Handling is way down on the list and only is a concern if the handling is too rough.
The reason this snake regurgitated is probably because of improper temps. It has been determines that the individual is "Not" using a thermostat.
I've had 5 snakes over a period of 40 years and never had a regurgitation with any of them.
The primary reasons for regurgitations in snakes is, 1. Food item too big for the snake, 2. Improper temps for digestion, 3. Intestinal blockage or illness. Handling is way down on the list and only is a concern if the handling is too rough.
The reason this snake regurgitated is probably because of improper temps. It has been determines that the individual is "Not" using a thermostat.
axis1
Fuhgeddaboudit!!!!
Have to Agree to Disagree, sorta . .
Hi Karl!
While you make some valid points in your post, I don't believe you can say you know as a fact that is has been determined that the snake regurgitated because the individual is "Not" using a thermostat. You don't know that the food item wasn't too big (though you do point this out as a common reason for regurges) and you can't see inside that snake.
While I am happy for you and your sneaky ones that you have not had a regurge in over 40 years, I have also kept snakes for over 45 years and the only time I ever had a regurge was in a hatchling who was unfortunately being force-fed after almost 3 months of refusing food! I have never had any of my adults regurge (or other hatchlings who were eating, for that matter) and I have NEVER even used a thermostat!
Some of us like to use scientific methods in caring for our critters and while I mimic their natural environment to great lengths, I do not conform to the same methods. However, I also do not judge those who do so adversely. I actually applaud your efforts as it also sets a good example for newbies to the hobby.
I know you advocate use of the Munson Plan in weighing and feeding your snakes and their prey. I just eye the width and length of my snake and the rodent. You use digital thermostats and thermometers, I use a couple of simple Petco dial thermometers (and a hygrometer to measure humidity in my incubator) and in my large viv, which is made of a nylon, screen mesh (because I like the airflow for my snakes as they only have one functioning lung), I use a heating rock and a heat lamp (not the kind that lights up though as that would be counterproductive). While you have exact temps, mine vary from the 60's on one side to the mid-to-upper 90's on the other. I love and care for my snakes vociferously, as I am sure you do for Rufus, as I have followed your threads and can see the passion you have for your little sneaky one.
My justification for the above is that in the wild, our snakes do not have the option to eat the perfect size rodent nor do they have a warm or cool hide to retreat to after a meal or when they are blue and waiting to shed. I believe I read in a thread somewhere when the debate was whether or not to feed a snake on top of a substrate or not, you pointed out that in the wild a snake will invariably swallow a twig or some type of debris after dragging its prey through it (not verbatim, but I think I am not taking you out of context and please correct me if I do). You were just trying (I think, anyway) to point out that whoever was discussing feeding their snake on a clean surface could actually relax if they didn't because their snake would not die if they swallowed some debris attached to the rodent.
Which brings me to my point: I was just pointing out, if you read that entire thread above, that to handle a snake prior to the time it takes to digest a mouse or rodent COULD possibly lead to a regurge. Brian, in the video, says "12 hours" but does advocate leaving the snake alone until the next day. Some folks (sometimes newbies!) see that and think it's OK to handle a hatchling on the same night it ate and even if it still has a lump in it. Some handle a snake clumsily, especially flighty hatchlings who almost always have a noticeable lump in them a day after a meal, and sometimes they get dropped. While you know how to handle your sneaky ones and have done so for almost half a century speaks to the fact that you naturally know how to handle them. But humans handling snakes is not natural from the snake's perspective, especially a hatchling who never ate or just ate its first meal!
Therefore, I was just pointing out to some of the individuals who actually asked the question, "How long is sufficient?" that sometimes, even 72 hours MIGHT NOT be (it would depend if there is still much of a lump in the snake).
Thanx for the opportunity to debate. I hope this explained my motive. I didn't wanna start no s*%t.
Just sayin.
Hi Karl!
While you make some valid points in your post, I don't believe you can say you know as a fact that is has been determined that the snake regurgitated because the individual is "Not" using a thermostat. You don't know that the food item wasn't too big (though you do point this out as a common reason for regurges) and you can't see inside that snake.
While I am happy for you and your sneaky ones that you have not had a regurge in over 40 years, I have also kept snakes for over 45 years and the only time I ever had a regurge was in a hatchling who was unfortunately being force-fed after almost 3 months of refusing food! I have never had any of my adults regurge (or other hatchlings who were eating, for that matter) and I have NEVER even used a thermostat!
Some of us like to use scientific methods in caring for our critters and while I mimic their natural environment to great lengths, I do not conform to the same methods. However, I also do not judge those who do so adversely. I actually applaud your efforts as it also sets a good example for newbies to the hobby.
I know you advocate use of the Munson Plan in weighing and feeding your snakes and their prey. I just eye the width and length of my snake and the rodent. You use digital thermostats and thermometers, I use a couple of simple Petco dial thermometers (and a hygrometer to measure humidity in my incubator) and in my large viv, which is made of a nylon, screen mesh (because I like the airflow for my snakes as they only have one functioning lung), I use a heating rock and a heat lamp (not the kind that lights up though as that would be counterproductive). While you have exact temps, mine vary from the 60's on one side to the mid-to-upper 90's on the other. I love and care for my snakes vociferously, as I am sure you do for Rufus, as I have followed your threads and can see the passion you have for your little sneaky one.
My justification for the above is that in the wild, our snakes do not have the option to eat the perfect size rodent nor do they have a warm or cool hide to retreat to after a meal or when they are blue and waiting to shed. I believe I read in a thread somewhere when the debate was whether or not to feed a snake on top of a substrate or not, you pointed out that in the wild a snake will invariably swallow a twig or some type of debris after dragging its prey through it (not verbatim, but I think I am not taking you out of context and please correct me if I do). You were just trying (I think, anyway) to point out that whoever was discussing feeding their snake on a clean surface could actually relax if they didn't because their snake would not die if they swallowed some debris attached to the rodent.
Which brings me to my point: I was just pointing out, if you read that entire thread above, that to handle a snake prior to the time it takes to digest a mouse or rodent COULD possibly lead to a regurge. Brian, in the video, says "12 hours" but does advocate leaving the snake alone until the next day. Some folks (sometimes newbies!) see that and think it's OK to handle a hatchling on the same night it ate and even if it still has a lump in it. Some handle a snake clumsily, especially flighty hatchlings who almost always have a noticeable lump in them a day after a meal, and sometimes they get dropped. While you know how to handle your sneaky ones and have done so for almost half a century speaks to the fact that you naturally know how to handle them. But humans handling snakes is not natural from the snake's perspective, especially a hatchling who never ate or just ate its first meal!
Therefore, I was just pointing out to some of the individuals who actually asked the question, "How long is sufficient?" that sometimes, even 72 hours MIGHT NOT be (it would depend if there is still much of a lump in the snake).
Thanx for the opportunity to debate. I hope this explained my motive. I didn't wanna start no s*%t.
Just sayin.
Karl_Mcknight
Common Sense Holder
the person in question waited 72 hours and the snake still regurgitated. The question becomes why? If handling is not the reason then why?
I'll stand by my comments. Handling is way down on the list as causes of regurge. The main reasons are Food item too big, and Incorrect temps as well as illness. I plainly stated all of that above. And since the person stated they are not using a thermostat I have assumed (Yes assumed) their temps are incorrect. And since the person stated the snake spends a lot of time hanging out near the top of the cage (as a way of avoiding the Too Hot bottom) it's probably not getting the temp necessary for digestion.
And if you'll go back and read the entire thread yourself, you'll see I am not the only one suggesting a thermostat, and the fact that you don't use one yourself really means nothing other than you've managed to get away with it for a while.
As far as your appreciation for the debate, umm... ok... your welcome I guess. I never intended to debate you or anybody else and usually don't do that sort of thing. But I can spot somebody that doesn't know what they are doing in regard to keeping a snake and as a member of this forum try to offer them assistance from time to time. And sometimes people who don't understand and who want to argue can and do turn comments into debates.
And nothing personal, but I do remember previous threads and posts by you, and you really aren't the person I'd seek advice from either.
I'll stand by my comments. Handling is way down on the list as causes of regurge. The main reasons are Food item too big, and Incorrect temps as well as illness. I plainly stated all of that above. And since the person stated they are not using a thermostat I have assumed (Yes assumed) their temps are incorrect. And since the person stated the snake spends a lot of time hanging out near the top of the cage (as a way of avoiding the Too Hot bottom) it's probably not getting the temp necessary for digestion.
And if you'll go back and read the entire thread yourself, you'll see I am not the only one suggesting a thermostat, and the fact that you don't use one yourself really means nothing other than you've managed to get away with it for a while.
As far as your appreciation for the debate, umm... ok... your welcome I guess. I never intended to debate you or anybody else and usually don't do that sort of thing. But I can spot somebody that doesn't know what they are doing in regard to keeping a snake and as a member of this forum try to offer them assistance from time to time. And sometimes people who don't understand and who want to argue can and do turn comments into debates.
And nothing personal, but I do remember previous threads and posts by you, and you really aren't the person I'd seek advice from either.
axis1
Fuhgeddaboudit!!!!
Hiya Karl.
And see, that's my point. I am not an expert, never claimed to be one, and I more often than not preface my posts with that fact by saying that some of the "more experienced and/or knowledgeable members of this forum" will hopefully chime in soon. I also (and maybe not always as I AM a little wordy and don't police EVERY word I write) state, ESPECIALLY if I am just trying to offer someone some consolation and support, that what I am saying is just my humble opinion.
Sometimes you just come across like what you're saying is a fact, when all it is your opinion. It's just the WAY you say something. You may be totally ON POINT about handling "being way down on the list of reasons" for a snake to regurge (though any degree of empathy tells me that an animal that eats only a couple to several times a month would probably want to be left alone after swallowing something that to one of US is like the size of a small Brazilian soldier!).
So I'm just trying to make a point for newbies to the wonderful hobby of owning and caring for a corn snake. The person(s) whose snake regurged (and chime in if I'm wrong there Carnelian and Caruolo) had asked for assistance in earlier threads and it became apparent that they were newbies and didn't know much about the hows & whens of cornsnake handling. I may not know much and am the first to admit that it even might take me an hour and a half to watch 60 Minutes on some days, but one thing I do know is people (sometimes I wish I DIDN'T know all I do about homo sapiens!) and I was just trying to prevent EXACTLY - and unfortunately - what had eventually occurred, which was a regurge to Neal's little gift of a cornsnake.
So there you have it. No need to get our underwear all tangled in a knot, my friend.
Peace out.
Karl_Mcknight
Common Sense Holder
I'm not wearing any underwear at the moment and you are not my friend.
You stated that "Sometimes you just come across like what you're saying is a fact, when all it is your opinion."
And how would you know what is fact and what is my opinion? Is it even remotely possible that perhaps I did state some facts? Would you even know? Get over yourself dude.
You stated that "Sometimes you just come across like what you're saying is a fact, when all it is your opinion."
And how would you know what is fact and what is my opinion? Is it even remotely possible that perhaps I did state some facts? Would you even know? Get over yourself dude.
axis1
Fuhgeddaboudit!!!!
I KNOW because you weren't THERE dude! You could not POSSIBLY see inside of that snake to be able to ascertain the cause of that regurge. If you aren't there, you are basing your opinion on the information given to you, which you have no way of knowing the validity of.
And why don't YOU get over yourself! Dude!!
I was trying to be nice and now you're acting like a dick. So why don't we just leave off here and that's it. But of course you'll respond because someone like you probably needs to have the last word.
Dragonling
Doesn't do "casual"
I've done bedding changes immediately following a feeding at a wholesale breeder. It was fast paced work so there wasn't much time to pander to the babies, though it's not like they got tossed around or anything. Of the 2500 or so hatchlings on the racks, maybe 5 would regurge the next day. They'd skip 2 feeds and be just fine after. I get why we play up the seriousness of regurgitation, since proper handling of the situation is important, but it's not the end of the world in the long run if it happens once.
axis1
Fuhgeddaboudit!!!!
OK. Thanx for that. Good to know!