New Snake

[Digzy]

Hey peeps,

So ive just joined, said my hello's in the intro section and have been reading through the plenthora of threads on this site..... Its amazing how much you can "get to know" someone just by reading comments and such, I feel like I know some of your personality's just by reading a forum! lol.
... I digress, the reason for my post is this:
I'm in serious thoughts about getting my new snake, ive done a ton of research into snakes, their habits, their pros and cons, even so much as to sit through a few dissections so I can learn their anatomy.

My questions however are,
There seems to be a grey area about what size viv to get. Now I know most Snakes suffer from Agoraphobia, and so far, the most part people have been telling me to get a R.U.B and house him in that. now that's not really my style, I like my luxuries, so I dont really want a storage box to be the house for my awesome little wiggler. I was thinking, if i got a 2 foot by 1 foot viv, would that be too large for a baby corn? i would flood it with decor so he would have a ton of hiding spots.

2nd question:
Heat sources, some say heat pad, some say lamp, some say both. I'll admit, I'm preferential towards heat mats and a lamp for aesthetics, what my idea was, is to get a heat mat under substrate and have a large flat topped hide on that side and put the heat lamp facing that hide so he can bask on top if wanted or hide inside and stay warm, and then the cool side, I would have another heat mat but obviously thermostat it down to the cooler temps.
Would that work well?

3rd:
Feeding Tubs, I've made the decision to use a feeding tub, and my logic behind this decision is I want to try and "train" my snake to recognize feeding time. basically I plan on getting a colored tub, a color he will only really see when its feeding time. for instance... Purple. Anyone ever tried this? I've seen behavior conditioning, but that doesn't really appeal to me.
If im honest i dont really mind if this works or not. but I want to feeding tub so he doesn't think anything warm and wriggling coming into his viv is prey.

On that note, how big should a feeding tub be? like when he gets to 3 feet plus, how can this be achieved?

Again on a similar note, I would love to see my snake strike as a natural snake should, by this I mean, I have seen countless snake feeding videos to get knowledge, but ive seen some snakes kinda, nose touch their meal and then just kinda... take it.
I really would like my snake to see prey as.. prey and attack it.
Do I achieve this by making the snake chase the food? like, touch the snake and wiggle and "run" away with it, touch it again, let him strike and wiggle for 10 seconds or so? would that then condition him to thinking when he sees prey he would have to attack and constrict it?
I would just like to see him growing up as natural as possible, whilst still being social towards me and others.

I'm really sorry for the essay, No doubt I will have more questions in times to come, and I know just where to come to have them answered

 

[jagodzinski]

1. When my corn snake was a baby, I had her in a 27 gallon tank, which is totally fine as long as there are lots of hides, tubes, plants etc for her to seek coverage in. Now that she is about 5 ft, she is in a 40 gallon tank, but still has plenty of branches, plants and hides to choose from. She is in a glass viv, but two sides are covered with "pretty wallpaper" and the other two have hiding spaces along them just so she doesn't feel like she is oddly on display in the middle of the room. However, sometimes when I am working in that room or moving, she definitely watches me

2. Corn snakes really don't need a heating lamp, just the belly heat is ideal. So that it is natural, a 12 on 12 off light cycle is good, just in the room. So for me, I just turn on the light in Jag's room every morning and turn it off every night. And I use a UTH with the thermostat I described before.

3. I use a feeding tub, because I started with a chipped substrate which can stick to prey and cause impaction. Now, I use paper towels and a still use a feeding tub. It also helps condition them to prevent striking when you enter. In fact, Jag recognizes me when I put my hand in the viv and will come right to me! As for size, my snake is about 5 ft and I use like a 2 ft by 1 ft one, but I need to get a bigger one soon, just so she has more room to wiggle the prey down. From the beginning, she has always struck at the prey, just like videos of wild snakes. Also, by your description I assume you are planning to feed frozen thawed (f/t) which is good, much safer for the snake and in my opinion, more humane for the mice.

You also mentioned you want your snake to be social. Cornsnakes are great for this. Just regular, safe handling when they are young, picking them up appropriately and you will be well on your way. My snake is very social with me, but definitely more ""skittish"" with those she doesn't know as well.


Note that these answers are my opinions and from my research, there may be some members on here who also keep very healthy and happy snakes with different husbandry, so on some points, there may be different ""correct" solutions. Just something to keep in mind.

Keep the questions coming! We love to help

 

[Digzy]

Thanks for the response, Ill admit i dont know how big tanks are when they are measured in gallons, I suppose that's a downfall of being a brit

The viv ill be thinking of starting with would be this:
http://www.reptilecentre.com/images/reptile/PT4071_Reptihome_small_walnut-v1.jpg?v=2
This viv is 2 foot wide by 1 foot deep,

Then once he hits 3 foot or so, ill be getting him a 5 foot by 2 foot viv. Im assuming that will be ok. worse case scenario, if hes scared of it, i can always partition a section off with some cardboard or something im sure?

The heating lamp, that's what i thought, but i was at a "well renowned" pet shop the other day and they refuse to sell their snakes unless they have a proper setup, which includes a heat lamp...:headbang:
As for lighting, ill be setting my tank up with a timer so it comes on at around 7am and switches off at 8/9pm, so it'd be a 12 to 14 hour "day"
Was even considering getting a dimmer and switching it to like 70% light when i get home from work.

Yeah ill be using F/T, I liked the idea of live prey initially as its more of a natural predator/prey experience. but yeah i agree, its not humane, and the chance of hurting my snake, uh uh, if a mouse or rat bit my snake id take it away from my snake and bite it back. lol...
So, you fit a 5 foot snake into a tub? is it not too cramped?

I appreciate your answer, i understand everyone has their own ways of looking after anything. and any advice is better than no advice, so thank you.

 

[axis1]

. . . Now I know most Snakes suffer from Agoraphobia . . .

Huh? :eek1:

This is a new one on me. Never heard of that. Especially when the basic definition of this disorder is one in which the one suffering from it experiences an "extreme or irrational fear of crowded spaces or enclosed public places." (I didn't make that up, BTW, and have been treating adults afflicted with this disorder for the better part of two decades!). Are you getting this term confused with another one or is their something about the definition that you might think that would apply to reptiles?

Again on a similar note, I would love to see my snake strike as a natural snake should, by this I mean, I have seen countless snake feeding videos to get knowledge, but ive seen some snakes kinda, nose touch their meal and then just kinda... take it.
I really would like my snake to see prey as.. prey and attack it.
Do I achieve this by making the snake chase the food? like, touch the snake and wiggle and "run" away with it, touch it again, let him strike and wiggle for 10 seconds or so? would that then condition him to thinking when he sees prey he would have to attack and constrict it?
I would just like to see him growing up as natural as possible, whilst still being social towards me and others.. . .

I'm not certain that the way a snake eats or whether or not it strikes at its food has anything to do with its ability or proclivity to be sociable with its owner or others. I believe these are two very separate processes for any animal, snakes included. However, if a snake feels unsafe, it will most probably experience and display difficulties in BOTH areas!

As far as feeding my cornsnakes, I have tried a diversity of different methods, especially when trying to get a snake make the necessary switch from live to f/t'd prey or rodents, from wiggling a mouse with tongs to tying a string around its tail in order to try to trick the snake into thinking it's alive! While these are worth a try, especially in the very beginning with a snake (the younger, the better! - A hatchling is much easier to train, imo, than an adult snake already set in its ways, though even adult corns can be malleable if treated appropriately), I have discovered that ALL of my corns have wound up being what they were when they first ate something, with slight variations! In other words, some will STRIKE and some will GRASP & GRAB and some will NUDGE and eventually just TAKE their food. My adult female (Lilly) will strike virtually all of the time, even when she was exhausted a day after laying a large clutch of eggs, though that time she did it in sort of a slow-motion because she was weak and it was a good thing it was a smaller rodent! But typically, she will STRIKE and wrap around the thing just as if it were trying to get away with its life! She will actually STAY wrapped around it as if to ensure that it's dead, then will comically look around while flicking her tongue, as if to make sure nobody will sneak up to her and snatch away her meal! It's actually funny to watch and never boring! On the other hand, my adult males, Bozo & Chili-Pepper, are both rather subdued in their approach. Chili will look at a rodent, flick his tongue for awhile, then will begin nudging it as if to wake it up from a deep sleep! This also comical in its own way! Chili will sometimes wait until I place the cover on his feeding tub prior to actually figuring out which way to go about eating a rodent (he forever was grabbing pinkies & fuzzies from the mid-section or rear when he was a hatchling) and will usually only grasp a rodent while I'm watching him if he is particularly famished or if it's been a while since his last meal, like during the springtime when adult males routinely go off of food for a month or two. My yearling, Ozzy, who is actually an offspring of Lilly & Chili-Pepper from last summer, used to strike rapidly & sometimes violently, oftentimes missing a pinky or fuzzy I dangled in front of him with a pair of tongs! Now, he's down to grabbing it with one quick, short lunge but has not wrapped around it like his mom does but he NEVER waits or delays going for it like his dad. So I have discovered three variations within the same family: one who STRIKES & WRAPS AROUND her prey always; one who always nudges and slowly grasps onto a rodent in his own time, a habit only done by captive snakes - makes me wonder if he could switch to striking and constricting if he were in the wild suddenly! And one who has gradually transitioned from STRIKING & WRAPPING AROUND a mouse to GRABBING it in one motion without trying to constrict or wrap around it! He may eventually do what his dad does and may begin to NUDGE his food. Don't ever remember Chili striking at all, but Ozzy is the first snake I've had that has demonstrated any significant variation in the way it eats its food, all within the first year of its life.

However, after all is said and done relative to the WAY a snake eats, as long as your snake is EATING, to me, that's the most important outcome of any that can be hoped for in reference to this part of their existence! And you HAVE to start SOMEWHERE, so maybe just try dropping the appropriately-sized rodent in front of your snake OR dangling it gently over it's head, whatever feels better to do. I think the important thing is for the snake to feel safe during this process, which requires acting with confidence, so if you notice you might be shaking a little bit, maybe you can try dropping it in front of the snake first. (Even the smallest hatchling can be incredibly perceptive and a nervous owner or keeper is directly related to experiencing challenges in getting first-time or problem-eaters to actually eat!!!)

Hope some of this helps!!! :crazy02:

 

[Giga]

Q. 1 It is my opinion that there's no such thing as 'too large' for any kind of snake, there is only 'not enough cover'. As long as there's enough foliage/hides/whatever else, snakey will feel secure and comfortable. It's only bare vivs that cause anxiety. I personally dislike using RUBs for adult corns. They have their place for babies and I have used them for this purpose with other species, but they're just not big enough for an adult corn to be able to display a full range of behaviours, imo, and ideally should be able to fully stretch out (although this isn't always practical). So yes, in principle you can keep a tiny baby in a 2' viv with no harm being done, the problem for me is that I'm paranoid about escapes, and vivs always seem to have too many gaps and cracks for my liking, such as at the overlap between the glass doors. Sure, it's unlikely a baby would be able to squeeze through, but I'm not happy taking the chance. I keep mine in Monkfield terraria when their babies then move them up to their adult vivs. As for the size of said adult viv, I think 4' should be considered a minimum, although plenty of people seem to do fine with 3'.

Q. 2 Well, this is pretty much what I do for my adult, so I would say yes! I have a heat mat (on a thermostat, of course), with a relatively low-powered lightbulb above it with about a foot of clearance between hide and light (naturally the light has a guard around it). Not once have I ever, ever seen my old boy sitting on top of his hide to bask, but that's up to him! That having been said, just a heat mat is fine and that what I do for my babby. The light only really serves to pretty up the viv and provide a bit of aday/night temp difference (it's on a timer).

Q.3 Apparently feeding in a tub versus in the viv is a bit of a touchy topic (although it shouldn't be; if snakey is getting enough food, who cares, right?). That having been said, I feed in the viv and have always been a bit perplexed by the argument that using one will stop them associating the hand with food. The way I feed in the viv, they don't see my hands, and besides, I handle them 5 or so times a week and only feed them once a week, so I assume they associate hands with, well, handling. In any case, not one of my corns has ever shown the slightest bit of food aggression towards me. Besides, won't they just associate the tub with feeding and then get aggressive? I also worry that sensitive babies get disturbed by being handled directly before being offered food, and question the sense of moving a recently fed snake in order to put it back in its cage; regurge risk, and all that.

All this having been said, plenty of people do feed in a tub and have no problems whatsoever, so it can't be that bad! Do whatever you like/what works for your snake. I've never heard of someone conditioning a snake with a certain colour before; I know my falsie came to associate shiny metal with food after I started using metal tongs to feed him (big mistake, couldn't get anything metal near him, went back to using hands, which are normally for handling, and everything got better), so it might work but falsies are, in my experience, infinitely brighter than corns, so eh, who knows. In any case, I'm not sure I see the need for/point of it, and what if you had a guest round asking to hold him and they were wearing purple? Seems like it would cause unnecessary limitations.

As for striking, some will do it, and some, once they realise the prey is dead (and they can tell), can't be bothered. Both my corns are lazy buggers who wouldn't strike a dead thing if you shot 1000 volts up their arse, and even the FWC, who used to be all about the striking, now doesn't care too and just looks at me like 'come on you stupid woman, drop the bloody thing!' I don't care though; I prefer to just drop mousey in and wander off; less hassle for me, and less likely to destroy viv furniture! Still, Unless you get a stubborn one, you can probably get him to strike if you refuse to feed him any other way. If you do get a stubborn one though, or one that is too nervous to ever get over the fear of striking while a massive scary creature (you) looms over it, you might just end up with a starved snake.

As with so many things in snake husbandry; do what works for the individual animal, and don't have expectations that are too specific.

Oh, and I haven't got a clue when it comes to gallons either

 

[DollysMom]

Hey peeps,

So ive just joined, said my hello's in the intro section and have been reading through the plenthora of threads on this site..... Its amazing how much you can "get to know" someone just by reading comments and such, I feel like I know some of your personality's just by reading a forum! lol.
... I digress, the reason for my post is this:
I'm in serious thoughts about getting my new snake, ive done a ton of research into snakes, their habits, their pros and cons, even so much as to sit through a few dissections so I can learn their anatomy.

Way to go! I wish everyone were as serious about educating themselves before getting their corn snake!

My questions however are,
There seems to be a grey area about what size viv to get. Now I know most Snakes suffer from Agoraphobia, and so far, the most part people have been telling me to get a R.U.B and house him in that. now that's not really my style, I like my luxuries, so I dont really want a storage box to be the house for my awesome little wiggler. I was thinking, if i got a 2 foot by 1 foot viv, would that be too large for a baby corn? i would flood it with decor so he would have a ton of hiding spots.

I started my babies in what is called a 20 gallon long here. After a tragic escape I use a sliding lid cage made specifically for reptiles. I think escape proof is very important, especially for little ones who can get out of the smallest gaps. For an adult something 3 to 4 feet long and 1.5 to 2 feet wide is appropriate. It should be a minimum of 1 foot tall, but 1.5 to 2 feet is better because corn snakes do climb if given vines or branches, or shelves. I know in the UK you have some great options at reasonable prices that we don't have here. No Monkfield or Vivexotics here . Btw, I know that you were not using "agoraphobia" in a clinical sense, lol. Yes, plenty of hiding places in the form of substrate to burrow in, hides, and foliage are key.

2nd question:
Heat sources, some say heat pad, some say lamp, some say both. I'll admit, I'm preferential towards heat mats and a lamp for aesthetics, what my idea was, is to get a heat mat under substrate and have a large flat topped hide on that side and put the heat lamp facing that hide so he can bask on top if wanted or hide inside and stay warm, and then the cool side, I would have another heat mat but obviously thermostat it down to the cooler temps.
Would that work well?

Heat pad all the way. You have some thermostat options over there we don't have, but whatever you do, use a thermostat. Monitor it with a thermometer as well. I use the kind with a probe that I can place inside the warm hide directly over the heat pad. No light or heat lamp basking spot needed. If you have a very dark room an LED light on a timer for a day night cycle is good, but is not needed in most set ups. I used to use one, but I got different curtains and now don't use a light at all on any of my vivs. It is very important for your snake to have dark at night. I personally am not a fan of red night lights. Just let your snake sleep.

3rd:
Feeding Tubs, I've made the decision to use a feeding tub, and my logic behind this decision is I want to try and "train" my snake to recognize feeding time. basically I plan on getting a colored tub, a color he will only really see when its feeding time. for instance... Purple. Anyone ever tried this? I've seen behavior conditioning, but that doesn't really appeal to me.
If im honest i dont really mind if this works or not. but I want to feeding tub so he doesn't think anything warm and wriggling coming into his viv is prey.

On that note, how big should a feeding tub be? like when he gets to 3 feet plus, how can this be achieved?

You can try the colored tub for fun but not needed IMHO. I start my snakes in smaller tubs and move them up as needed. My yearling will soon need more space. She's currently using one that is about 8 by 12 inches. You will know when you need to move up. Trust your instincts. They don't need a really large space. You do need enough to space so your snake has room to strike and coil if they are so inclined. Not all of them do, by the way, so don't worry if your snake doesn't. My yearling never struck or coiled as a baby and does all the time now. Part of it is a function of prey size vs snake size IMO. I feed frozen thawed exclusively-- mice only. One last thing, I always use feeding tongs. Some do some don't, but I prefer not to have mouse scent on my hands. If I do handle the mice by hand I wash very well before handling the snake.

Again on a similar note, I would love to see my snake strike as a natural snake should, by this I mean, I have seen countless snake feeding videos to get knowledge, but ive seen some snakes kinda, nose touch their meal and then just kinda... take it.
I really would like my snake to see prey as.. prey and attack it.
Do I achieve this by making the snake chase the food? like, touch the snake and wiggle and "run" away with it, touch it again, let him strike and wiggle for 10 seconds or so? would that then condition him to thinking when he sees prey he would have to attack and constrict it?

Your snake will do what what it wants to. You can not make it do anything! Do not harass your snake with its food except in very special ways with certain problem feeding babies called slap feeding. If your snake eats readily, you are a winner and be happy. By readily I mean if you leave it with a thawed mouse, it has eaten it within 4 hours. Most eat much more quickly than that.

I would just like to see him growing up as natural as possible, whilst still being social towards me and others.

Captivity and a relationship with humans is not natural. End of story. It is not a bad thing either. Our captive bred snakes are hatched to live this life and it can be a good one as long as the snakes get what they need. But don't deceive yourself, it is not natural. You can still say a lot for the lack of predators, steady supply of food and clean water and healthcare that a captive gets.

I'm really sorry for the essay, No doubt I will have more questions in times to come, and I know just where to come to have them answered

Never be sorry for honest questions asked sincerely! Best wishes.

 

[Digzy]

You both raise very good points,
Axis as for the phobia part, It was mentioned a couple of times by a good 10 or so videos and information leaflets, the word agoraphobia was only mentioned once however, i may just be over extending to reach a definition. It was more just a reasoning behind my viv choices.
As for the striking part, i think you may have mis understood my post, sorry I meant that id like to see my snake treat its prey as it would as if it were wild, whilst having a social side too.
I will never do anything to endanger him however, so if i see hes not striking or cant get the hang of it, ofcourse id just let him take it, was just kinda hoping to "train" him to strike. ofcourse him eating is the principle, but doing so in a bada$$ was just make him all the more interesting. I wont be nervous with him, Without wanting to sound arrogant, it takes alot to shake me, i mean when i get bitten for the first time it will probably make me jump. but i wont treat him any different.
So, if your experiences are anything to go by, would I be able to ask a breeder how he feeds? like if i asked if he striked or nudged? would that behavior stick?
I mean its not a deal breaker, but its a preference i would definitely be swayed by.

Giga - Have you always fed in the viv then? I always did think about substrate getting stuck, it was a concern for alot of the videos ive seen so far. hence alot of tubs. but how long would you leave them before moving them back etc..
I think ill skip the heatlamp then.. may just stick to the normal lights and heatpads.

 

[DollysMom]

...

So, if your experiences are anything to go by, would I be able to ask a breeder how he feeds? like if i asked if he striked or nudged? would that behavior stick?
I mean its not a deal breaker, but its a preference i would definitely be swayed by.

That behavior can and will change.

You certainly can ask a breeder how the snake feeds, but other than what and when a breeder with a large number of hatchlings may not know. Many just put a frozen thawed mouse in with the snake and check back later for a missing mouse and a full tummy.

You certainly can ask the snake's overall temprament, but that is subject to change as well. A nippy, scared hatchling can turn out to be the most laid back of adults.

At best you can go somewhere where you can see and briefly handle a snake pre purchase and ask the temprament, but all bets are off after transporting that snake and placing in a new environment. Some even go off their feed a bit. This happened to me with my Cleo. At 14 grams and with a heathy poop in her deli cup on the way home I knew for sure she had been eating, but she shed that first night home and refused the first time I tried to feed her. I had to feed her in the dark in a deli cup at first to get her to eat again. It was a long time before she ate in daylight. At present she strikes and coils regularly, but that is so subject to change.

So what you ask is, in my opinion, a misplaced goal at best.

Pick a snake you love and then love the snake you picked. They each have so much to offer and if you are open to your snake, you will be delighted in their special individuality.

 

[Giga]

Yes, I have always fed in the viv and I've never had a problem with substrate getting stuck. I reckon their mouths are so tight around the prey that they sort of push substrate off; in the wild, there's not just kitchen roll everywhere, you know!

I think it might be a reflection of another difference in the way I do things compared to a lot of keepers, and that's I defrost mice by just leaving out on the counter, rather than in hot water, the result being that the mice I feed are dry. I could well imagine sticky substrate being a problem if the mice are wet.

I also agree that you may want to reign in your goals/expectations a bit. If your corn strikes like you want it to, great, and some will be amenable to this if you 'train' them by only allowing them to eat if they strike... but not all will, and you can't know when you buy it, especially if you buy a baby.

 

[jagodzinski]

While I feed outside the viv, I do know of some people who feed in and offer the mouse on a plastic plate or tupperware lid to keep it off of the substrate (if you are using something that can cause impaction, like woodchips).

 

[Karl_Mcknight]

a gallon is 231 cubic inches. Length X Depth X Height.

Therefore a 10 gallon would contain about 2310 cu. inches
a 20 gallon would contain twice that and so on.

A 10 gallon is ok for small babies. But you'll soon be looking for something bigger.

I started my baby in a 20 gallon, and he's currently in a 30 gallon. The 30 gallon roughly measures 24 X 16 X 16. He is fine now, but I'll be getting something even bigger within a year. A 40 Gallon is big enough for an adult. (Some folks will tell you a 20 gallon is big enough for an adult. Maybe so. It just seems too cramped to me.)

Corn snakes for the most part do Not Bask. A Basking lamp is really not needed. Having said that, I have a light on a timer, 12 hours on, 12 hours off to simulate day and night, for the metabolism and cycle of the snake. The light I use does not produce a lot of heat.

Most of us use heat mats under the cage with thermostats.

The line is about evenly split, 50/50 on feeding in the cage or in separate tubs. I am a "Separate Tub Feeder." The snake knows what that tub is. Snakes are not stupid as some folks would have you think. They are capable of learning and repeating behaviors.

As far as will your snake "Strike" or just kind of slither up to the meal and swallow it? That sort of depends on how the snake was fed before you acquire it. My snake is an aggressive feeder. He will almost go airborne to grab a mouse. I have seen others that will not do this. When I feed, I hold the mouse by the tail with tongs, dangle it over the snake and wiggle it and he just goes crazy. Some snakes on the other hand would turn and go the other way if you did this. So you really won't know for sure until you actually try to feed.

 

[axis1]

. . . Pick a snake you love and then love the snake you picked. They each have so much to offer and if you are open to your snake, you will be delighted in their special individuality.

Couldn't have said it any better!!! Now THAT statement just cuts out all of the senseless chatter (but the voices in my head won't SHUT UP! HA HA!).

Nice Dollysmom! Is writing part of your profession?

While I feed outside the viv, I do know of some people who feed in and offer the mouse on a plastic plate or tupperware lid to keep it off of the substrate (if you are using something that can cause impaction, like woodchips).

It's really not rocket science, is it? (I usually feed OUTSIDE because most of my little sneaky ones tend to make a mess, but if not, I'll just lay down some newspaper or paper-towels with a paper plate on top to ensure any mess doesn't get on anything inside the enclosure).

Yes, I have always fed in the viv and I've never had a problem with substrate getting stuck. I reckon their mouths are so tight around the prey that they sort of push substrate off; in the wild, there's not just kitchen roll everywhere, you know! . . .I also agree that you may want to reign in your goals/expectations a bit. If your corn strikes like you want it to, great, and some will be amenable to this if you 'train' them by only allowing them to eat if they strike... but not all will, and you can't know when you buy it, especially if you buy a baby.

Also depends upon what kind of substrate you use and how you prepare or defrost your mice or rats. If you use coconut bark, which can get powdery after it dries out and if the rodent is wet or damp from defrosting, it could end up like an ice cream cone with sprinkles on it!! (Not the most PLEASANT thought while I'm having my morning coffee!).

In terms of the STRIKE or NUDGE factor, I think Dollysmom said it best when she described how these things can change or vary. Also, as I mentioned earlier, I have 3 adult snakes and a yearling whom I all raised from hatchlings and who show such a variation in the way they approach their prey that it almost proves that corn snakes have individual & unique personalities & characteristics. You may want one that will STRIKE but in captivity when feeding f/t'd rodents, snakes can and will sometimes apparently modify this behavior. And I don't think it's worth replicating EVERY aspect of living in the wild for a cornsnake nor do I think that it's in the snake's best interests to do so. Just my opinion.

Last but not LEAST, as far as housing your snake, I think that as long as the environment has everything in temperature variance, substrate, and hides and is at least 30 - 40 gallons or larger for adults (I know, I have high standards but our pets ARE important, no?), that your snake has the potential to thrive! I think it's a shame the way some breeders (even those who seem to LOVE snakes like Brian at SnakeBytes TV) have these rack systems that consist mainly of a bowl of water and a little space for the snake to coil up with a couple of sheets of newspaper as a substrate and hide! I know these snakes appear healthy but it's similar to the calf-in-the-box dilemma: if it can't really move and has NEVER known anything different, does it mean that it is unhappy or miserable? I would rather provide an environment in which, if my little sneaky ones COULD speak, they'd say that they have everything they could possibly want and MORE in addition to the ability to STRETCH OUT a little bit!

Sorry if my standards for caring for my snakes are a little "stuffy" or "snobby," as I've been called before, but I really don't care, because aren't our pets worth that little bit? And if one can't provide the basics necessary for a decent quality of life, then why even HAVE a pet in the first place? Just sayin'.

 

[Digzy]

...I'd like to thank each one of you who posted, you made me realise i was being kind of an idiot.
Its like announcing your'e pregnant and getting disappointed if they have curly hair or something stupid.
I'm sure im gonna love my little guy no matter what he does. Thanks for the clarity.

Now I had a thought the other day about viv size and the snakes needs, etc. And it amazes me why ive not seen anyone else do this, now it could be a completely stupid idea, so please tell me if it is.
But my thought was if i bought a 4 foot viv like the ones we have available here in the UK. i could build a wooden partition that i would put a rubber seal on to make sure he couldn't slip past it, it would be secured to the viv, and it would effectively take the 4 foot viv to a 2 foot one, and then i can gradually increase it at will as he grows, and when i decide hes ready, he has a fully functional 4 foot viv ready to go, he already knows it, it saved me money, and time from buying new ones, plus i get storage space for all his bits in the partitioned part of the viv...

Tell me im not the first one to think of this? I cant really see a downside to it...
Before everyone picks holes in this, its worth noting, i do nothing by half measures, if im going to do something, I spend time and money on it and make sure its good. there will be no half-assed attempts with this. so it wont be dangerous or escape able.

 

[DollysMom]

Not having that kind of viv available here I can't make any evaluation. All I will do is wish you the best on your plans.

Now I'm just looking forward to your finding your snake and posting pics of it! I know you will get one that is perfect for you.

 

[Giga]

Yeah, partitioning vivs like that is not a new idea, and is definitely an option if you're of the handy variety. Personally I'd still worry about them squeezing through the gap between the front edge of the partition and the glass, and then between the glass to freedom... I suppose you could seal the wood to the rearmost glass panel, leaving the foremost to slide and let you in.

Honestly though it would save you time just to start him off in a cheap plastic terrarium of the kind you can get in any petshop that stocks rep stuff. It probably won't be much more expensive than the wood and sealent, and a lot less faff! It's not as though you'd need to buy two complete sets of equipment; the stat, thermometer and some furniture can be transferred to the forever viv as and when, and you'd be buying two heat mats anyway (one the right size for an improved 2' viv would be too small for a 4').

I don't see the need for gradual increase in enclosure size really. My corn adult went from something that was significantly smaller than a 2' viv straight into a full size 4' with no problems whatsoever. I'd put new hatchlings in them if it weren't for the risk of escape and the inconvenience of finding a tiny critter in such a comparatively large space.