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Nationwide CCW bill

I was kidding because of your beautiful target shooting. You bring up a good point about staying proficient. I learned to shoot when I worked for US Customs. I joined a shooting club and went twice a week to maintain the skill once I left there. I still go, but a friend's husband is a retired cop and I get to go with him for free... and the ammo is free, too. Guns aren't toys, they're tools, to be used properly.
 
Karl_Mcknight said:
of course guns fall out of it. Liberals hate guns. They don't even let their own citizens carry, they sure won't let somebody from another state carry.
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Liberals do not hate guns.

I'm very liberal and own several, including a couple custom pieces. I hope to eventually inherit my grandad's M1911 that was his sidearm in WW2.

Canadians in general are much more liberal in politics than Americans and lots of us own guns.

As a gun owner, though, I'm solidly against the idea of people carrying them around in public. I take special care to be safe with my firearms, but I don't trust that everyone will. I don't accept that we must live with innocents dying due to an armed populace because of the few that shouldn't be trusted to carry a firearm. The old adage is "An armed society is a polite society", but you just have to look at road rage in America to know that is not at all true.

My belief is the benefits do not outweigh the cost.

So, as a liberal, I do not hate guns. I just don't trust every single person to be responsible with them.
 
You may feel safe walking around Yellowknife, but I'll invite you to walk around Baltimore, Detroit, Los Angeles, New York or any metropolitan city unarmed. You are comparing liberals in Canada to liberals in the U.S. There's a world of difference. Liberal politicians make no bones about their desire to scrap the 2nd Amendment of OUR Constitution and disarm all citizens. One of the dumbest things a person with a concealed permit can do is leave his/her weapon at home. The second dumbest thing is to carry it and not know how to use it safely.
 
I'll stand by my comments.

And your comments about : "As a gun owner, though, I'm solidly against the idea of people carrying them around in public. I take special care to be safe with my firearms, but I don't trust that everyone will. I don't accept that we must live with innocents dying due to an armed populace because of the few that shouldn't be trusted to carry a firearm. The old adage is "An armed society is a polite society", but you just have to look at road rage in America to know that is not at all true......" I find appalling. All that much more a reason to carry. And as an "American" I really don't give a flyin' flip what a Canadian thinks.
 
I don't follow why that would be more of a reason to carry. Maybe I didn't explain myself properly? Basically, road rage incidents are much more lethal when firearms are involved. In general, any kind of altercation is much more lethal when firearms are involved. It doesn't seem wise to have them distributed among the population when so many people react to conflict so violently.

You don't have to give a "flyin' flip" what I think if you don't want, I suppose. Not sure what that has to do with anything, though, or why you'd reply if you don't care.
 
first of all, you are a Canadian. Your citizens don't carry....er.... can't carry in public. SO you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

We are discussing American Laws, which you have absolutely no say in. Why are you even chiming in? Your vote does not matter.
 
It's....an international forum?

You were making a broad claim about liberals, which my very existence proves as untrue.

As far as my opinion, I felt that I should justify my post, rather than just saying "You're wrong." I know my vote 'doesn't matter' when it comes to American policy, but so what? Do you not have any opinions on anything beyond America's borders? Do you not take any interest in what happens outside of your neighbourhood? The world is a big place, and we all share it and have an effect on each other, borders or no.
 
yes you silly twit, it's an international forum, but "Nationwide CCW" (what this thread is about) is about American Law. Everybody knows that. Canada does not have Nationwide CCW. Go back home.
 
Twolunger said:
You may feel safe walking around Yellowknife, but I'll invite you to walk around Baltimore, Detroit, Los Angeles, New York or any metropolitan city unarmed. You are comparing liberals in Canada to liberals in the U.S. There's a world of difference. Liberal politicians make no bones about their desire to scrap the 2nd Amendment of OUR Constitution and disarm all citizens. One of the dumbest things a person with a concealed permit can do is leave his/her weapon at home. The second dumbest thing is to carry it and not know how to use it safely.
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There are plenty of liberal gun owners in the US. Many Americans support some form of regulation (I think it's most, but I'll have to look up the articles). I also know people who have concealed carry licenses who don't carry most of the time because carrying around a big hung of metal all the time is a pain.

I've only been to Alaska recently, haven't been to Los Angeles in a long time, but I didn't feel any need for weapons any time I've been to the US. I don't know anyone that goes to the US and immediately wants to arm themselves. I don't believe the US is so unsafe that anyone that goes there should immediately get a gun.
 
You don't understand the point or the Law at all. I hope I never 'NEED" my firearm, but if I do I'm glad it's there. It's a right that Americans have. As an American I can "Choose to carry" or I can "Choose not to."

As a Canadian, you don't have that choice or that right, and if the day ever did come where you "Needed" a firearm to defend yourself, you'd just be out of luck.
 
Okay, yeah, absolutely, I hope you're never faced with a situation like that as well. I can understand wanting that, my dad was recently attacked by a dog and he's talked about wanting to have a gun for situations like that.

I should clarify that I don't think carrying indicates anything about the person who is carrying.
 
Karl_Mcknight said:
yes you silly twit, it's an international forum, but "Nationwide CCW" (what this thread is about) is about American Law. Everybody knows that. Canada does not have Nationwide CCW. Go back home.
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There's hardly any Canadians on this board. You're essentially saying Canadians aren't welcome - almost all the posts in this forum are about American laws, events, and businesses.

Anyway, Canada may not have a Nationwide CCW, but we are affected by your gun laws. The majority of homicides committed with pistols in Canada are done with pistols smuggled in from the US. Like I said, we all have an effect on each other.
 
Back when I was a kid, my mom once said something to me that I believe is VERY applicable in this case.

Better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it.
 
Oh, and before this gets much hotter here...

Warning: Please cease with any name calling towards any other party here. You know who I am referring to.


This CAN be a civil discussion.
 
I'm a very civil person. I'm neither a conservative nor a liberal. I am ethical and follow a moral code that, to the best of my ability, doesn't infringe on the rights of other people. With every right comes responsibilities. When people don't meet their responsibilities and family/community are unable or unwilling to step in, then we have given the government an open invitation to "fix things." It's created a monster.
I have a permit, I "ccw" almost all the time and don't advertise it. The only real way someone would know would be because I had to use it. I am responsible for my weapon 24/7. If I fall short, I shouldn't have it. Just like having a driving license, for example. The day will come when I need to stop driving. If I don't, then my family should step up and step in to keep me from driving. And when I can't drive any longer, my family should be willing to pick up my "slack" by getting me to the store, and to appointments et al in a reasonable way. When that doesn't happen, is the police and other government agencies step in. And too many people have allowed that to happen because it's easier, and so now we pay for it.
Any type of government can go too far. Any type of economic system can become detrimental. When people stopped looking out for each other, when people forgot the concept of mutual benefit in issues of the economy, when being properly educated (whatever the profession/skill/trade/endeavor) the government had to step in to MAKE it happen. And look how well that has worked.
I'm not sure how clear I'm being, but I look at things like this: we have a constitution, and the people of this country have gotten so far away from living to a standard that allowed the constitution to work FOR us, that the government has continually stepped in to "pick up the slack" to the point where IT is now in control of US, instead of US utilizing IT.
It's quite a quagmire because people don't see that too much legislation is geared for taking away and limiting... and that wasn't the initial purpose of our government and this country.
I have the right to carry, but you are not required to do so. If I can't carry properly, and I can't self-regulate myself, then the government has to take over that job. And there are too many of us for the government to do it case by case, individual by individual... It's scary.
 
I think a lot of people have ignored, or not fully understood, the definition of the word "govern" in "government".

  • to control the speed of (a machine) especially by automatic means
  • to hold in check : restrain
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It's an interesting concept to consider that the job of government is to actually restrict the actions and freedom of the people it is governing. The problem is, the power inherent in government tends to grow, and the rights of the people being governed tends to diminish.

Certainly a classic example of the road to Hell being paved with good intentions.
 
The good news is that Americans have the right to keep and bear arms. Many don't feel comfortable carrying a " big hunk of metal." We have a word to describe them, they are called victims.
 
Heck, I have never had anything against someone who does like guns and doesn't want them for themselves, much less actively carry them. To each their own. But what I DO have a problem with is people who don't like guns, for whatever reason, wanting to restrict MY liking guns and wanting to have and carry them. Your fear or dislike of guns is not my problem. I like having the option of carrying a means to protect my person and property. I like having the option of dealing with a situation myself, without thinking "I sure do hope I can keep some perpetrator distracted and not get us injured or killed before the cops show up after my 911 call."

Some people are willing to take those odds. I am not. Cops will tell you in no uncertain terms that they are not responsible for YOUR safety. Try to sue the cops if they do not show up in the nick of time to save your butt, and tell me how that works out for you.

So if they are not responsible for your welfare and protection, then WHO actually is responsible? Why duh, YOU are! So tell me how you can be responsible for your safety if you do not avail yourself of the means to effectively do so? Is that really a smart decision on your part?
 
America is a "Self Governed Nation." To my best knowledge it's the only nation on earth that is. Those Folks in Washington are NOT the government. You and I are the government. The folks in Washington are Our Representatives which we send there to do business for us so that we can tend to our families and our personal lives and jobs.

The sad shape the "Government" is in is a reflection on all of us. We elected those folks and we let them get away with the crap they do. It will stop when "We the People" put a stop to it.

Unfortunately, the Democratic Party has recently (in the past 30 years) become the party of the Criminal element, the chronically unemployed, the uneducated, the Lazy, and the inner city Ghetto dwellers. And These people now make up about half the populace.

I can remember 40 years ago, most people could do simple math, had working skills, a sense of family and respect for mankind, and some sort of faith in God. Today most of that is gone. Schools no longer teach Civics (which was required when I was in school). The pledge of allegiance is no longer said. Prayer in school is gone. Some folks are now complaining about the words "In God we Trust." And some folks don't even know what bathroom to use. Almost all of this due to the democratic party and groups like the ACLU.

The founding fathers were quite clear on the purpose of the 2nd Amendment.

It wasn't to allow Americans to go hunting or to collect their favorite firearms. It was put in place so that we the people would not or could not become "Subjects" of an out of control government.

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." – Thomas Jefferson
 
Exactly, Rich. Somewhere along the line, people began to think they had a right to restrict MY rights... because THEY don't like/don't want something, I CAN'T show a liking for it or have it because that will open me up to ridicule, castigation, the Law.
And it doesn't matter what the issue is... guns, reptiles, a vegetable garden in the front yard (against code in Kenmore NY solely for asthetic reasons), religious beliefs, reproduction...
 
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