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Feeding the Unwilling

Cat_Eyed_Lady said:
I will say this... the second one I put a head down I thought I had killed it at first... Just after I got it in her throat she stopped moving. I was panic striken :( I went to touch her again to see if I could get the pinkie head to move and if she was alive and she jerked away... was never so happy to see that! whew :) But after I got the pinkie into their throats I had to hold their mouths shut and then massage the pinkie down til they started to move it down themselves. I kept ahold of them til it was atleast 2-3 inches down their bodies and then I put them back in their containers. :) (did I do it ok??)
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That's exactly what I do, so you're doing great :) The stress of being force fed, especially the first time, can be pretty harsh. You put the snake down and it just lays there, nothing moving at all. Your heart stops and you hold your breath... yep, been there alright :rolleyes: They stress out less as time goes on.
 
Nomed said:
I'm so sorry about the ones you had to put down :[ I really hope that the remaining ones will do good for you. And I want to let you know I think what you are doing is amazing
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Thank you. I'm doing it for selfish reasons: I feel amazing joy when they finally eat on their own.
 
Hi Jaxom....I am very sorry to hear of your loss. I know you feel strongly for the animals you care for and feed so it was not a easy decision for you and was very hard to carry thru.
I wanted to say a big thank you for this thread. You and this thread may be responible for helping save many other hatchlings.
You have helped my daughter Cat_Eyed_Lady help her hatchlings. I must say it was horrible to watch but it needed to be done and she did a great job with your help. We were both nervious wrecks. I was a big help tho as a couple of chest pains made me say ok its break time. :grin01: ..Bless you and thanks again...
 
Msterry said:
You have helped my daughter Cat_Eyed_Lady help her hatchlings. I must say it was horrible to watch but it needed to be done and she did a great job with your help. We were both nervious wrecks. I was a big help tho as a couple of chest pains made me say ok its break time. :grin01: ..Bless you and thanks again...
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Cat's Mom! Welcome to the thread :) I was so glad the two of you were able to put what I wrote into action. As I've told Cat, feel free to post updates so we can follow the progress of her hatchlings at the same time we follow mine. That'll will be a valuable addition to the discussion.
 
Last evening's feeding went about as expected. Each of the hatchlings was offered a small pink, fresh from being washed with soap and water and patted dry on a paper towel. Their reactions ranged from, "That's okay, I'll move to the other side of the container." to "Hey, hot water bottle. Lemme curl up around this and take a nap." Since they were force fed last time, this time they get to go hungry. Maybe that will make them go for the food next time. Until then....
 
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So you didn't get the 'oh, a thing to poop on!' reaction that was Lil's favourite at this stage?
 
diamondlil said:
So you didn't get the 'oh, a thing to poop on!' reaction that was Lil's favourite at this stage?
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ShoeString used to do that with regularity. So far, the babies haven't learned that prank :rolleyes:
 
well, on monday night I offered food to all 6 of the ones who are not willing to eat on their own. Of course, all 6 still refused. After waiting almost 2 hours to see if they would, we decided to force feed them again. We rewarmed all the pinkies then decided we would try to see if we could get the Whole pinkie into them this time... omg... was more gross than I was expecting LOL but :) we were able to get 4 of them to 'eat' the whole pinkie. The other 2... it was abit odd feeling. After I would get the heads into their throats... well, it almost felt like they were tightening their throats to try to prevent me from forceing more in.... is that possible?? or maybe their throats are small?? I didnt feel this on the other 4.. it felt very different. Eventually we were able to get down about 1/2 a pinkie in the other 2 :) so, I would say it went well. Next time I will offer food but if they dont eat... they will get skipped and see what happens the next time after that when food is offered.
 
Cat_Eyed_Lady said:
we were able to get 4 of them to 'eat' the whole pinkie. The other 2... it was abit odd feeling. After I would get the heads into their throats... well, it almost felt like they were tightening their throats to try to prevent me from forceing more in.... is that possible?? or maybe their throats are small??
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Sounds like it went really well. Yes, some babies do a better job of clamping down their throat, and it feels like all you're doing is pushing it down into their lower jaw. That's why I use the piercing taper (yes, most people don't have this :cool: ). Any rod with a smooth end that's smaller around than a pinkie skull. Since we know a skull will fit, we know a rod that size will fit. A push rod gives you enough leverage to push past their muscle reflex and get the food into the throat.

This is what I do, but I'm not saying it's what you have to do. It's also okay NOT to fight with the baby. So long as you are getting a half pinkie into them at a feeding, and you don't mind doing it every three days, they should be fine. They won't grow as fast as the hatchlings you are able to feed a full pinkie every four days, but they should still grow for you. As they get bigger, getting them to take the pinkie gets easier as well, since their mouths and throats are larger. I haven't noticed much difference in size between snakes that started slowly and snakes that ate right off the bat. Over time, I've seen that the slow feeders catch up and are as large and as healthy as any other yearling snake.

Keep up what you are doing. You seem to be getting the hang of it quickly, and your babies are getting the nutrition they need. I'll keep my fingers crossed that they start eating on their own sooner rather than later :)

And say Hi! to your mom :cheers:
 
well, last night I offered the 6 thawed, washed and very warm pinkies.... but of course none ate... so I took the pinks out and just left them be.. didnt force feed this time. I will wait til next time and see if they eat and if not, then force feed.

How are your's doing Jaxom??
 
Hi Jaxom :wavey:
I must say when force feeding a "full pinkie" the term is misleading. No way are the pinkys "full". Its one of, if not the gross's things i have seen or partaken in. Yup i was raised on a farm. I thought the calf born with its skin inside out was bad..Funny how time changes things, even my mind.
Ok i have to ask you. You always mention a piercing taper. To me that would mean something sharp.. Cat use's my small forceps. Small and rounded on the end.
Another question.....how do you do it alone??

Hope all is going well at your house.....
 
Msterry said:
Ok i have to ask you. You always mention a piercing taper. To me that would mean something sharp.. Cat use's my small forceps. Small and rounded on the end.
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A piercing taper is a metal cylinder that is small and rounded on one end and tapers to a larger diameter on the other end. It is used to stretch existing holes to a larger size or to assist in inserting tight jewelry. The small end is rounded and the back end is either flat or hollow. I have them in every size from 16 gauge up to 9/16" (the size of my earlobe piercings).
Another question.....how do you do it alone??
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I use my left hand to hold the hatchling behind its head. With my right, I insert the toothpick and lay it across the mouth. By tipping the snake's head up slightly with the left hand, gravity holds the toothpick in place. At this point, the snake is still lying flat on a towel. I put the head of the pinkie into the mouth and release the mouse long enough to pull the toothpick out the side of the mouth. After re-grasping the pinkie, I lift the snake with my left hand and move it to my chest, where I can see straight down and gravity is helping keep the pinkie going in the right direction. I've always had to do my force feeding solo, so this is the system that evolved. It's no harder than learning to type by touch with a finger missing :rolleyes:
 
:wavey: Thanks so much Jaxom, i appreciate the answers.
You sure have a lot more coordination then i do. I used to have it but i think thats just another thing that has come up missing for me. That or i can't remember where i put it. lol
Hope yours are soon eating on there own....
 
I asked a friend about the gooshy pinkies and force feeding (now that I've taken on a problem feeder, and if she doesn't eat for me I may have to try it) he says that live pinks don't squish and split nearly as bad as f/t pinks do. If you raise your own, and you know your mice are clean (since freezing kills a lot of bad things), it could eliminate some of the gut spillage. Of course, since I got rid of my mice and all I have are my rats I'll be dealing with gooshy f/t pinks. I have a little while to try EVERYTHING before I have to do it though. I hope I can get the little girl to eat on her own. Is there any evidence, or has anyone found any results that show a non feeder at birth that begins to eat on it's own will be more likely to produce more non feeders? Common sense would say yes, but things don't always work that way. :shrugs:
 
Daeraelle said:
he says that live pinks don't squish and split nearly as bad as f/t pinks do.
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ew ew ew ewwwwwwwwww sheesh... doing that would never ever cross my mind... geez... sorry but ewwwww

as far as non-feeders making more non-feeders... I just dont think so... I may be wrong but I just dont think so.... the mom and dad of my 5 babies eat like pigs.. yet 2 of the 5 wont eat on their own. :shrugs:
 
well, we tried the washed method again last night but used a dif kind of soap... 2 ate on their own!! yahhhh :) lets hope they keep that up and that 'symptom' spreads lol the others that didnt eat, got skipped again and if they dont eat next time, then we will force feed :rolleyes:
 
Cat_Eyed_Lady said:
well, we tried the washed method again last night but used a dif kind of soap... 2 ate on their own!! yahhhh :) lets hope they keep that up and that 'symptom' spreads lol the others that didnt eat, got skipped again and if they dont eat next time, then we will force feed :rolleyes:
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Congrats! What worked, Dial or Ivory? :grin01:
 
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