Feeding the Unwilling

[Cat_Eyed_Lady]

well, Callum, all I can say to that is.... Dont go into a thread about feeding an unwilling snake then! LOL because when it comes to force feeding? its about guts ...

 

[Cat_Eyed_Lady]

last night was feeding night... all but one ate on their own about 1/2 will take a regular unscented pinkie now but the other 1/2 is still requireing washed.... but I am just happy they are eating! Now if we could get the little hold out to eat... she is being tough!

 

[Cat_Eyed_Lady]

time for another update... we have 6 that were problem eaters... haveing to be forcefed, the whole thing..... Now... last night 5 of those 6 ate on their own.. plain ol' f/t pinkies no extra washing in soap, no gecko skin... nothing Now... is we can only get the last little hold out going!!! She is Tough! Makes me super happy to have only 1 left to force feed

 

[Susielea]

Jaxom and Cat & Cats Mom it sounds like you're all doing a great job, I'd take my hat off to you if I had one, lol.
I wish I'd known about this site 4 years ago when I first began keeping corns, as the first 3 hatchlings I got were non feeders and sadly didn't make it.
Although I had Kathy Loves corn snake manual and tried everything suggested in there, I didn't succeed in getting them to eat.
Now whenever I'm speaking to someone new to corn snakes in my local reptile shop, I always recommend they come take a look at this forum. Mostly because of the wealth of infomation on here but also because of the great people too!!!

Keep up the good work, and keep us posted on their progress as I'm looking forward to the posts where they are all eating voluntarily!!

Best wishes,

 

[Cat_Eyed_Lady]

Thanks its a lot of work.. I can understand why some breeders would prefer to not take the time... if I had more... I would be second guessing myself too

We have only one that didnt eat this time and we had to force feed her tonight. We are going to be force feeding her for abit now because I just dont like the fact she only weighs 4 grams. Its especially aweful for her because she is soooooo tramatized by it that when I am even part way done I am wondering if I have killed her Such a little thing and as sweet as can be. I would have prefered to never had to force feed but I am sooooo glad to know about this site... its the only way I even tried force feeding. It still scares the heck out of me every time!! I cant hardly wait til this last baby is eating on its own.... and the other Keep eating atleast til next year... :crazy02:

 

[jaxom1957]

I decided to try the Ivory soap method for tonight's feedings. Apparently, my hatchlings do not care if their pinkies are 99 and 44 one hundredths percent clean, they still aren't interested. Fine, be that way...NO MICE FOR YOU! I tried to buy an anole at PetCo, but they didn't have any. The closest they had were house geckoes, so I passed. I am getting a pair of alligator lizards at the end of the month, so those still not eating have that to look forward to. The weather is hot and muggy, and the babies aren't in danger of starving to death anytime soon. I'll keep at it until they eat, one way or another.

 

[Cat_Eyed_Lady]

ever thought about getting a leopard gecko?? hehe I was able to get some skin off mine when she shed and that is how we got the last 2 to eat Washed in Joy dish soap, served hot... with a tiny peice of shed leo skin in the mouth Just one little hold out so far...

How many are you doing now Jaxom?? I know there for awhile you had quite a few... has that gotten any better?? How are your hands holding up??

 

[jaxom1957]

ever thought about getting a leopard gecko?? hehe I was able to get some skin off mine when she shed and that is how we got the last 2 to eat Washed in Joy dish soap, served hot... with a tiny peice of shed leo skin in the mouth Just one little hold out so far...

I looked at them, but they're just not my thing. The California alligator lizards are way cooler! They have little tiny legs that they barely use, preferring to move like a snake. Their nearest relatives are legless lizards, and their colors are very much like classic corn snakes. Their bodies are usually six inches long or less, but their tail, if it's never been shed, may be longer than that. Their faces remind me of the comedy "Dinosaurs" that was on a decade or so ago.

Do you get the feeling I may have picked my lizard species already?

How many are you doing now Jaxom?? I know there for awhile you had quite a few... has that gotten any better?? How are your hands holding up??

I have eighteen non-feeders, four more coming on Sunday, and a couple more coming sometime in the next few weeks, once the hot weather spell has broken. Since I started cutting up the pinkies into quarters, feeding is much easier and my hands are cramping a lot less. The miserable weather is at least partially to blame for not many of my babies eating on their own yet. Even my older, established babies from late last year look at me like I'm nuts to offer a hot meal. I'd offer pinkie popsicles if I didn't think they'd regurge them the same night.

I'm not stressing out over the ones still not eating. I'll make sure they have enough nutrition to stay healthy until they get it together. I have the time and patience to outlast even the most stubborn. I mean, it's not even a contest...my brain has to be at least 20% larger than a baby snake's, right? :grin01:

 

[Cat_Eyed_Lady]

20%..... your doing much better than I am then LOL I dont think I have that much left hehe Wow, that is a lot to feed. You break up meal times I assume?? with that many my back and hands would give out on me Are you the go to guy when ppl have problem feeders?? I guess since we are down to 1 baby.... I rethink about all the time we spent with the babies and how sweet they have turned out.... might be ummmm dare I say "fun"?? to try again?? hmmm yep.... I am nuts but I like dealing with the babies, even if they make me want to pull my hair out sometimes LOL I'd be more than happy to get a few more from ppl to force feed..... not sure I could do as many as you do though You are The man when it comes to that Good luck with your babies.... hopefully you will get some feeding on their own soon Damn weather is playing havik everywhere I think... I have central air and that can make my house too cold.... then I have to run things to keep parts of the house warm... its kinda nuts going from room to room and each one has a dif temp LOL

 

[Susielea]

*BUMP*

Just wondering how things are going over there jaxom? Has the weather cooled any?
How are you getting on with all those lil'uns? Any progress yet i.e anyone eating voluntarily?

Best wishes,

 

[jaxom1957]

Just wondering how things are going over there jaxom? Has the weather cooled any? How are you getting on with all those lil'uns? Any progress yet i.e anyone eating voluntarily?

No progress to report as of the last feeding, but the weather has cooled a little bit, so I'm hoping tomorrow night shows some improvement. I'll be posting tomorrow night, after everyone eats, on their own or with "persuasion".

 

[Cat_Eyed_Lady]

well, for me and mom... we started with 6 little buggers and we are now down to just one I have no idea why she wont eat... she isnt too small.. no kinks and she poos Just fine LOL we tried all the tricks and nothing works for her. I just have no idea what it will take for her to decide she wants to eat. This thursday we will be receiving 5 more problem and non feeders... I hope we can have the same success with this 5 that we did with the first group we did One of the original 5 is eating so well that he actually took 2 little pinkies this last feeding time I really hope the next 5 do as well, they are coral snow females... will be different working with pink and white ones instead of normals, fluorecent and butter

I am curious too Jaxom You started with so many and gotten even more... are there some now eating on their own?? Also, the little one whos kinks seem to go away.... how is she doing??

 

[Msterry]

My kids nuts :crazy02: ..lol She did'nt get it from me i swear.
Jaxom you are unreal. Thank heaven these lil one have you. How you can do 22 babys + is beyond me.
Is'nt quartering aaa bit lets say messy? Don't you lose a lot that way?
Is Beldar still eating on his own? I wonder how Ziva is doing too. Guess i need to ck tomorrow nite hu...

 

[jaxom1957]

Jaxom you are unreal. Thank heaven these lil one have you. How you can do 22 babys + is beyond me.

Beyong me at times, too. Next year, I'm going to set a limit, like 15 or something. Although, after stressing out a couple of times over it, I've become used to having this many and the three or four hours it takes to feed them just whizzes by....

Is'nt quartering aaa bit lets say messy? Don't you lose a lot that way?

It's really not that bad. I feed on a towel on my lap, and all that I tend to lose are little bits of internal organs. If you get the pieces down quickly enough, they keep together. Overall, I'd say the snakes are getting 90% of the pinkie.

Is Beldar still eating on his own? I wonder how Ziva is doing too.

Unfortunately, Beldar regurged his last meal and passed away a day later. I've come to the conclusion, and the breeder agrees, that doming is indicative of some incomplete development, and anything beyond very minor doming should be culled. Trying to save them is, ultimately, heartbreaking. Prymaat and Beldar's deaths were very hard to take, and I won't risk working with domed hatchlings in the future.

Ziva, on the other hand, seems to have recovered from her brush with euthanasia just fine. There is no sign of the previous kink, and, if she would just eat, I'd be jumping for joy. As it is, I managed to find an anole at the pet store today and tried rubbing this evening's pinks all over his body, much to his consternation. And to no avail, as the hatchlings greeted the anole-rubbed food with a collective, "YAWN". I was hoping to avoid sacrificing the little green guy, but that's the next step. I bought enough crickets to feed him for a couple of days, and then I will put him down just before the next feeding attempt. If the snakes still don't eat the scented pinks, they will receive a stern talking to about how hard I work to put food on their table, and how they seem to feel no shame about wasting perfectly good lizard guts. I'm sure they will afford me the same attention I paid my parents when they gave the same lecture to me.

 

[Rich in KY]

These lil babies are lucky they have you as their "daddy"!

 

[jaxom1957]

Finally!

I left the pinkies in with the hatchlings overnight to see if any of them would go for a midnight snack; this sometimes works with shy eaters. Moe, AKA Hypo 1M, stepped up to the plate and ate one for the team. He is the first of the hypo hatchlings to eat a pinkie on his own. I don't know if it was the anole scenting or the seven hours that the pinkie sat in his GladWare viv with him, but something finally clicked. He's curled up with a round little belly, and I couldn't be happier for him. :cheers: Moe isn't a snake I plan on keeping; he has a couple of small kinks that make him unsuitable for breeding. I want the pet-only snakes to get off to a good start just as much as I want the ones I hope to someday breed, so three cheers for Moe, and I hope Larry, Shemp, Curly and Mae follow his example real soon.

 

[Cat_Eyed_Lady]

Congrats!! its always a wonderful feeling when they take that first one I am so happy for you and lets hope the rest follow his example

 

[nlove_3000]

You are incredible! I know how you feel although I am at the beginning of the road. I recieved 24 problem feeders about a week ago. 1 didn't survive shipping A second passed away the next night They were in terrible shape. I offered 6 of them pinkies the same night to those that had never eater before....like yours, mine had birthdates spread from late June through late July and these had never eaten (I received them 9/6/07). None of those ate and were force fed the same night. Of those 6, 5 kept it down and gained or maintained weight - the 6th actually did not regurge until late on the 3rd day and then passed away that night.

So -- there are 21 left. Of the 21 I feel incredible because 8 have fed on their own - apparently they prefer live pinkies! Yesterday was the 4th day since then and I went to pick up my lives (I'll stick with what's working for a couple of feedings) and they were out and due to get a shipment today. I took the three they had left and I got 2 more little guys to eat for the first time! The big experiment came when I offered it to one of my guys that had eaten 4 days prior... I gave him a hour in the deli cup with the pinkie and nothing ... I started to get scared. So I decided to give him the night. I put the deli cup in a shoebox and turned out the light...and he ATE! He's the first one to eat a second meal on his own!

This is a pick up the shelving that they are on, and what it looked like when I first got them. All of the hatchlings' information is kept in a database in the computer, and on index cards "just in case", but as a visual help - I use "the dot system". When these guys arrived I weighed them all and logged their feed information. Those that weighed the least (only 4 grams) got a yellow dot. Those that hadn't eaten in 6 weeks or more got a pink dot. Everyone who got a dot of either color was labled "extreme" and those with a pink AND yellow were labled "most extreme". As they eat for me they get a green dot over top of the pink one.

It honestly really helps to have the dots. As I see less pink dots, and more green taking over the tubs it's really nice to be able to visually log the success and keeps my spirits up!

 

[nlove_3000]

The change...

I just wanted to add another pic showing the progress with the dots See the green dots??

 

[tom e]

Wow! Nice work Nlove! It's good to see all that green.
My system is without stickers but it makes sence to me.
Whenever I offer a pink, I draw a little open "0" on their index card. An open 0 is kinda like a unanswered question for me. That way when I look in the morning I can remember which ones need to be checked for results. If the pinkie is still there, I throw it away and mark a slash / through the 0. If it has eaten I mark it with a cross- looks like a crosshair. One shot one kill- Proud of that snake.. If I see a regurge, I later fill in the circle entirely so I have a dangerous looking black mark.
Below the marks on the card I note

A1 < 1P 8-28 (translation is this snake ate 1 pinkie 8-28)
or
A1 > 1P 8-28 (did not eat.)

I can look at the "0"'s and know how many eaten, refused or regurged and underneath I see specific dates.

Don't know if that's helpful to anyone, just thought I'd offer it!