Hatchling not gaining weight, now regurge.

Sorry this is a long post but I want to give the most info I can for the best possible feedback. I will be following the regurge protocol but am curious if you guys think she might not make it and there is something wrong with her. Please, help!!! She is only my second snake and this is making me really nervous! :nope:

History: I got my new hatchling with her 20 gallon enclosure off of craigslist in the 1st or 2nd week of August. The guy I got her from said he had her a month and fed her 2 pinkies, then a week later 1 rat pinkie, idk why? And when he went a week later to feed her again she still had a lump so waited another week and thats when I got her. She was 8 grams at that time. Seemed healthy, active and was eating normally. The only problem I was having was she wasn't gaining any weight. Even after I moved her up a size in pinkies. Actually even lost a little bit, I could even start to see her spine. So I moved her to the next size, still nothing. Now yesterday was feeding day again, I always spot clean my enclosures first then feed. I also do feed in an empty butter dish with holes in it, covered up, waiting about 15-30 min. and she has always been finished eating.

Well I found what I thought was a regurge because it was too large to be a poop. Sure enough I picked it up and it was half-digested, if that's possible, because I could only make out the 2 back legs of the pinkie.

So here is my list of feedings and weights, no sheds with me yet.
August 2010
10th: Ate 1 pinkie (0g) Snake wt: 8g
16th: Ate 1 pinkie (0g) Snake wt: 8g
21st: Ate 1 pinkie (0g) Snake wt: 9g
26th: Ate 1 pinkie (1g) Snake wt: 9g
September 2010
1st: Ate 1 pinkie (1g) forgot to weigh this day
7th: Ate 1 pinkie (1g) Snake wt: 7g
12th: Ate 1 pinkie (2g) Snake wt: 7g
17th: Ate 1 pinkie (2g) Snake wt: 7g
22nd: Ate 1 pinkie (2g) Snake wt: 7g
27th: Ate 1 pinkie (2g) Snake wt: 8g
October 2010
3rd: Ate 1 pinkie (2g) Snake wt: 8g
8th: Ate 1 pinkie (2g) Snake wt:8g
14th: Regurge 1/2 digested with 4 BM's in cage.

Setup: 20 gallon, UTH on 1/2 of left side of tank (stuck on the underside), lots of hides and foliage, 1 thermometer with the probe under the bedding on the cool side (70-75) usually depending on day or night, and 1 therm w/probe under bedding on the warm (84-86) controlled with a herpstat with probe right next to the therm probe, water bowl, aspen bedding, a regular light on a dimmer and timer to give some day/night cycles since her enclosure is in the closet (no other room in my room for another tank).

I only have held her about 1-2 times per week just because I know how sensitive hatchlings are and I didn't want to stress her. I didn't even start holding her until after her 3rd meal. I really don't know what to do if she doesn't start to improve. Any advise on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Is she going blue? That is the most common cause I have found for snakes to regurge.

I would order Nutribac from Kathy Love. http://www.cornutopia.com

Then not feed her for 8 days from the regurge. Then feed a pink head rolled in Nutribac. Then feed every five days, half a pink, lengthwise, the other half, the remaining 2/3, in two pieces from the headless pink, and then a whole pink cut into three pieces. Then a whole pink cut in half crosswise. I would keep her on mice cut in half or thirds until she is on hoppers, then continue with slitting the back and all three sides of whatever she eats for 6-12 months. I would continue to powder all meals with Nutribac for the same length of time. I would never feed this snake when she is blue ever again.

Chances are she will come out of this just fine, but I consider the added probiotics from Nutribac to be essential to her recovery.

Thanks for the input. I will do that. I don't think she was in blue in the last feeding? She is an anery motley so I hope I could tell when she was in blue. I do always put 3 slits in the back of whatever I feed. One at the neck, at the tail, then in the middle. I will definitly get some nutribac, my manager at work might be able to get it for me right away. If not I will get some from Kathy. Thanks.

I don't know what caused her to regurge. But I do have some experience with a snake not gaining weight. It was a pet shop snake who I bought because she looked dull and skinny. They feed all their snakes on Monday there, the same day I feed my snakes. I tried once a week with her but she wouldn't budge past 6 grams. So I moved her to a pinkie every 4 days. I weighed her every week. At first she didn't gain but a gram or two. I waited until she was 18 grams before I moved her back to every seven days.

So maybe your snake needs meals a little more often. After you get her regurge all sorted out and feeding like normal you could try feeding every 4 days and see if she gains.

Anyway if your snake keeps regurging I would take her to a vet. She could have parasites or some other health problem. Though I hope not.

It also wouldnt hurt to have a fecal done by a herp vet to see if she has any parasites or the like just to be safe. Animals that wont gain weight with often have parasites.

I doubt a hatchling is going to have parasites. You might feel better if you bought a scale that weighs in tenths of grams- that way you can see a very gradual increase in weight. A rough estimate is that a snake will gain an amout of weight equal to 1/3 of the weight of the prey it consumes, so a 1g pink isn't going to cause a noticeable weight gain in a snake when you are weighing by whole grams.

The four day feeding plan isn't a bad idea, but I would be cautious now that you have had a regurge. Maybe after a month of no more problems, you could start throwing in a four day interval here and there. Maybe every third time or something like that. Be _really_ careful to watch her to see if she is blue, though.

ok, that sounds like a plan. Thanks for the extra comments. Anything at this point is helpful.

Nanci said:

The four day feeding plan isn't a bad idea, but I would be cautious now that you have had a regurge. Maybe after a month of no more problems, you could start throwing in a four day interval here and there. Maybe every third time or something like that. Be _really_ careful to watch her to see if she is blue, though.

Click to expand...

Yea, I will stick with the regurge protocol for now and then maybe throw in a 4 day feeding here and there. Hopefully this was her first, and will be her last regurge. Here is to hoping!

I just took a peak into her enclosure to look at temps and she is curled up right in front, under her climbing log. In full view. She is still breathing, thank goodness. But this is odd...I usually have to seach for her. Now I'm really worried...

She's probably out because she's hungry!

Hmmm... probably. Hopefully thats a good sign. I found some nutribac locally so I don't have to order online and wait, i'm very impatient. I fed her last on the 8th, so I'm unsure when she regurged. So my plan is to feed tuesday or wednesday a pinky head rolled in nutribac. Then wait a week, if she keeps it down, and feed her 1/2 of the headless one rolled in nutribac. Then see how it goes.

If you have Nutribac now, I'd put it in her water. About a pinch in her water bowl, but you have to change it every day. And then stop doing that after she gets the first meal in.

Oh...ok. Wow Nanci, you really are awesome! Thanks for all your help! I do have it now so I'll do that.

Thanks to WingedSweetheart too! When I get her through this regurge thing I will think about feeding her every 4 days to get her to gain weight. But that is pretty far off I'm thinking cuz now I will be paranoid...lol

So, I hope I found out why she may have regurged. It has gotten a little cool at night. The cool side of her enclosure got down to 66 degrees one night. I also noticed no burrowing holes in the aspen. I think she may be too weak to burrow to get down to the warm heating pad. So I have decided to turn up my thermostat to 88 instead of 85 and put a 40 watt red bulb in a dome above her tank. I put another thermometer inside the enclosure on the warm side above the bedding and yesterday it got to 84 degrees. It was a little warmer yesterday than it has been during the day the past week and are expecting rain the rest of the week.

So I offered her a pinkie head rolled in nutribac and after about 45 min. she ate it, then drank a lot after I put her back in her enclosure. So I really hope she doesn't regurge. Thanks to everyone for support and I will keep you posted as to how she does.

Just a quick thought, I only know if my ghost is going blue if I catch the eyes milky, I can never tell by looking at her skin. I have an amel mot that regurges if fed while in blue, and all of my snakes seem to drop a small amount of weight right before shedding as well as right after pooping. I have also noticed that hatchlings tend to put on length before weight so also watch how long she is and not just weight. You might also consider moving her down to a ten gallon or even a sterilite tub until she gets a little bigger as the 20 may be stressing her with all that space. Good luck!

Yes, I have watched very carefully to see if she may have been, or still is, in blue and I can't tell. My own other snake also loses weight right before a shed. The weight loss was 1 gram, then she went 4 feedings and went back up 1 gram to 8 grams and didn't regurge until the 3rd feeding at 8 grams. This is what is so confusing for me....

I always weight my snakes right before each meal, not ever in between so could pooping have been a weightless factor for 4 feedings? The fact of them gaining length before weight I did not know about hatchlings, I've never had one this small before. I'll try to keep a better eye on that as well, but it may be a challenge since I will not be pulling her out unless it's feeding time.

I have thought about a smaller enclosure but am afraid of added stress at this point with the regurges so i talked myself out of it. But if everyone thinks this would be best then I will do what is best for her.

Thank you so much for the input, I really need all of the advice I can get. When I observe her out and about in her enclosure I notice she seems to move a lot slower and more... sticky... if that makes any sense? I am so worried that she is getting more and more weak.

Is she sticky from the Nutribac? I always have to rinse the snake off in room temp water after feeding NB. (Don't bother her now to do it, though). She's been eating fine in her current enclosure, so I doubt that it's stressful for her. I feel it would be safe to offer her a lengthwise half pink in four days. If she ate, and she's out, and she's moving- that seems like a good sign. I think if she felt weak, she would be hiding. She could also hide just to digest, so if she does that, don't let it worry you. I'm just saying eating and moving is good.

Oh...lol I didin't even think about the nutribac making her sticky! That makes total sense.

Ok, then I will leave her in her current enclosure and yes she is moving around a lot now that it seems she has digested fully. I still am afraid to pull all of her stuff out of the enclosure to check for a regurge. But I will on monday and if she hasn't I will feed her again the lengthwise half of the headless pinky rolled in nutribac and let you know how it goes.

Thanks again for all the help.

Ok so I just got finished pulling everything out of her enclosure and NO REGURGE!!! YAY!!! There was poop, so that's good.

Tinkerbeller87 said:

Ok, then I will leave her in her current enclosure and yes she is moving around a lot now that it seems she has digested fully. I still am afraid to pull all of her stuff out of the enclosure to check for a regurge. But I will on monday and if she hasn't I will feed her again the lengthwise half of the headless pinky rolled in nutribac and let you know how it goes.

Click to expand...

So this is the plan for Monday. I think it is a good thing that she is hardly hiding the past couple days, that means she's hungry! So hopefully she keeps the next one down too...

Ok so yesterday's feeding didn't go well. I think I may have put too much nutribac on the pinkie. I cut the headless pinkie in half long-ways, like instructed, and then rolled it in nutribac. I put it in the feeding container and then put her in. Left her in a dark and quiet spot for about 30min. and when I opened it to see if she had eaten... She was stuck to the side and the pinkie was stuck to her!!! Oops!!!

So now here is my question... When should I try again? She is cruising around and seems hungry and didn't seem stressed when I pulled her free of the sticky nutribac and washed her off. So, any ideas on when I should try again?

Thanks in advance for the help.