My corns are inseparable

We bought our 1st corn almost a year ago from Petco. He was just over 15". it has never bitten, sheds regularly and a hearty eater, never refusing a meal.

A few months ago, my son and i were in Petland looking around and noticed they had a brown corn (markings and coloar almost identical to a boa). it was housed in a tiny container and it looked miserable, with no place to hide, so we bought it on impulse, considering a "rescue".

i've read many time here not to house corns together, but that evening when we brought our new family member home, i went against popular advice and put the new snake Kaa in with Mooshoo, knowing it was just over night.

Mooshoo's viv is a corn snake's dream. several natural hides and a plastic plant to climb to its hearts content (which it does several times a day). So i figured the new corn could find his own hide and never really encounter Mooshoo.

When i put Kaa in the viv, it calmed down and took a slow leisurely stroll through its new environment. Mooshoo was curled up sleeping on a leaf on its plant, when he noticed its new house guest. He slowly crawled down to check Kaa out and when Mooshoo realized it was another snake, he took off and took refuge under his water dish.

Kaa eventually found one of two cardboard tubes to curl up in and got some much needed sleep.

The next day, i checked to see how things were, expecting the worse but relieved to find them both curled up together inside a tube. it was feeding day, so i took Mooshoo out for dinner and Kaa immediately began searching the viv. He checked every single hide (there are five) until Mooshoo was returned, then they looked as if they greeted each other. They both returned to the tube together.

i was going to wait to feed Kaa, but the kid at Petland had no idea when the snake had last eaten (another reason i am glad that i bought it), so i decided to feed it. He is a little bit smaller than Mooshoo so i gave him one pinky. He didn't hesitate and gobbled it up, so i gave him another, which he gobbled up too.

But i noticed Mooshoo was out searching, even with a full belly. When i returned Kaa, they again looked as if they greeted each other, and took refuge in their tube together.

A few days later i was able to get a proper viv set up for Kaa. A soon as i separated them, they acted stressed. Mooshoo was on the constant move, always looking as if he was searching. Mooshoo usually sleeps 23 hours a day, but not anymore. Kaa was doing the same thing. Stressed.

So, i put them together to see what would happen and if snakes could smile and wag their tails, they did. And of course, they took off together to one of their hides.

Since that day, over almost three months ago, they have become inseparable. Sure, once in a while i'll find them sleeping apart, but it's rare.

Last night i took Kaa out for some handling and Mooshoo became a wreck. So, i put Kaa back to make things right for Mooshoo.

This post is not intended to disprove respected advice, but more to say nature has its own laws, and sometimes it shows us who's boss.

Mooshoo-and-Kaa said:

The next day, i checked to see how things were, expecting the worse but relieved to find them both curled up together inside a tube.

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You were expecting the worse, but you did it anyway? I don't mean to slam you, but this makes no sense to me. The worse would be cannibalism; it seems as if you were prepared to accept that. Of course, you may not have seen the worse yet. What if the new snake was carrying a disease, and gave it to the first corn (or vice versa)? To house snakes together carries its own risks, but to do so without initial quarantine seems reckless.

Mooshoo-and-Kaa said:

This post is not intended to disprove respected advice, but more to say nature has its own laws, and sometimes it shows us who's boss.

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The problem with this is that you are not replicating "nature", you are keeping two animals in an artificial environment, so nothing about their actions in relation to each other in your artificial environment can be called natural. That they curl up in the same hide together is as much about them both finding that place to hide suitable as it is any desire to "hang out"

I see you are calling them "its", which leaves me to believe you don't know the sex of your animals. Will you be able to care for any babies if they turn out to be male/female? Also if they are male/female you'll run the risk of them breeding too young, which can lead to dystocia (egg binding) in the female. There is also the stress factor, which is an unseen but deadly problem in cohabitated animals such as the solitary corn snake.

After all this, and you STILL want to keep them together? . Well, provide them with as large as an enclosure as you can, provide as many hiding spaces as possible (aboreal hides also, i.e branches draped with plastic vines, a raised box, a ledge etc.) get them sexed, either by a knowledgable hobbyist or a vet, and be prepared to deal with any/all problems that may arise...and don't ever say we didnt warn you :eek1: Good luck with them

I think the "worst" could be yet to come. Do a search on cryptosporidiosis.

NO quarantine!

You knew that the pet sop was providing substandard husbandry.
This alone indicates to me that you aren't that concerned for the well being of the snake you already had regardless of how luxuriously its cage is furnished.

Fancy cages are nothing more than eye candy for the owner. It is quality of HUSBANDRY that indicates the quality of care an animal receives. When you placed a KNOWN care compromised animal in with an established animal your husbandry practices were not better thought out than those of the pet shop from which you "rescued" the snake.

Mooshoo-and-Kaa said:

This post is not intended to disprove respected advice, but more to say nature has its own laws, and sometimes it shows us who's boss.

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I think that some of your conclusions might be tainted with a little anthropomorphism.

Mooshoo-and-Kaa-
While we realize that you were trying to share your (so far) good experience, understand everyone here in that they are not trying to personally bash you. But want to make you completely aware that the risks you are taking are not worth it and can cost the lives of both of your pets. If you have truly done any research into the cohabitation of snakes just on this forum, you would be scared to death to expose them to the possibilities. Please take the time do study up on it and reconsider your current housing situation.

Regarding the topic:

The very idea that corn snakes develop "feelings" for each other or "care for" each other or whatever you want to call it is completely rediculous to me. I see this all the time in the "I'm going to house my snakes together even though everybody that knows what they're talking about says not to" threads. Sure, maybe they react to the presence or absence of each other, but that doesn't mean anything. If you jammed a cat in the viv with your snake, it would react to that too but it doesn't mean they like each other.

I'm probably going to get slammed for this by somebody, but let's face it. Corns and other snakes are NOT high-order animals in the sense that they don't/can't show emotion....at least not to the extent that people try to put on them (such as the "my snake loves me because I'm his mommy" posts that pop up here every so often).

Like the comment above "he became a wreck" - based on what????


Regarding the original post:

Mooshoo-and-Kaa said:

The next day, i checked to see how things were, expecting the worse but relieved to find them both curled up together inside a tube.

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How was the thermal gradient? They'll put up with each other sometimes if it means keeping warm/cool so that doesn't prove anything.

Mooshoo-and-Kaa said:

But i noticed Mooshoo was out searching, even with a full belly.

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Mine cruises around for a good 20-30 minutes even after a big meal and he's a bachelor...and the same thing just about every time I put him back in the viv regardless of whether he's just eaten or not.

Oh wow, look at the troll! Just in time for the holidays.

I should apologize for that comment, but it's very hard to. Even IF the original poster is just the clueless sort who wants to believe all is well, and not someone seeking to irritate the members here, the fact that they tossed a new snake with unknown past in with their current snake and 'expected the worst,' BUT DID IT ANYWAY, tells me that by rights they should own no animals. So no, I won't apologize.

If you take an animal into your home, you are responsible for their care and health. This means NOT endangering them because it might be convenient. If you can't be bothered to care for it properly, leave it where it was to take its chances. As it is the new snake doesn't have much to thank them for -- and the older one sure as heck doesn't either.

coyote said:

I think that some of your conclusions might be tainted with a little anthropomorphism.

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Sounds like a LOT of anthropomorphism to me. Snakes don't feel emotions. Just a basic survival instinct. I know that my snakes recognize me, but that doesn't mean they like me.

THAT MADE ME THINK OF THIS COMMENT IN ANOTHER THREAD, LOL.

SlipperyErnie said:

What do you think snakes would say if they could talk? I think Clinton would be saying "wheres the mouse? wheres the mouse? wheres the mouse? gotta get out. gotta get out. gotta get out. wheres the mouse? wheres the mouse? Got any food? Hey! Don't touch me!"

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You aren't really replicating nature because corn snakes with the exception of breeding are solitary animals (and somtimes cannibalistic) and they don't feel emotions for each other.

I agree with every reply made in this thread.

Mooshoo-and-Kaa said:

it was feeding day, so i took Mooshoo out for dinner and Kaa immediately began searching the viv. He checked every single hide (there are five) until Mooshoo was returned, then they looked as if they greeted each other. They both returned to the tube together.

....

But i noticed Mooshoo was out searching, even with a full belly. When i returned Kaa, they again looked as if they greeted each other, and took refuge in their tube together.

A few days later i was able to get a proper viv set up for Kaa. A soon as i separated them, they acted stressed. Mooshoo was on the constant move, always looking as if he was searching. Mooshoo usually sleeps 23 hours a day, but not anymore. Kaa was doing the same thing. Stressed.

So, i put them together to see what would happen and if snakes could smile and wag their tails, they did. And of course, they took off together to one of their hides.

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When I got my first two snakes I housed them together because I hadn't discovered this forum yet, and I didn't know the risks. I noticed the same behavior in my snakes that you have noticed in yours, but I interpreted it very differently (and still believe I am correct). I thought that they came out and cruised when the other was out of the viv because they finally felt comfortable, and hid when I replaced the other snake because they were stressed.

It also seemed to me that when they "greeted each other" it was more like they were saying - darnit, you're back - and off they'd go to hide.

The clincher for me was when one of them stopped eating. That was right around the time I found this incredible group of folks and discovered the risks of cohabitation. Sure enough, I separated them and my girl ate the very next day. They also seemed much more calm when I held them, and were out cruising their vivs a lot more. They were just so much more relaxed.

I'd separate your snakes right away and pray that Kaa hasn't infected Mooshoo with anything yet.

Wilder said:

Oh wow, look at the troll! Just in time for the holidays.

I should apologize for that comment, but it's very hard to. Even IF the original poster is just the clueless sort who wants to believe all is well, and not someone seeking to irritate the members here, the fact that they tossed a new snake with unknown past in with their current snake and 'expected the worst,' BUT DID IT ANYWAY, tells me that by rights they should own no animals. So no, I won't apologize.

If you take an animal into your home, you are responsible for their care and health. This means NOT endangering them because it might be convenient. If you can't be bothered to care for it properly, leave it where it was to take its chances. As it is the new snake doesn't have much to thank them for -- and the older one sure as heck doesn't either.

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I don't think OP is necessarily a 'troll' and that's perhaps not the best way to get them to take advice.
M&K. you purchased another viv so it's time to seperate the two and read up on your corns. I think the replies you have gotten here kind of tell you where most experienced keepers stand when it comes to co-housing.

shed'n my skin said:

I don't think OP is necessarily a 'troll' and that's perhaps not the best way to get them to take advice.

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You are right, of course, and my tone was a bit hard. In the end I am sorry for that, but it just gets to me that so many seem to have no regard for the risks. It is each one's choice what they do with their pets, but it still doesn't make reading the blatant disregard for basic husbandry any easier, nor how it is then glorified as a great thing to do -- meaning some new person won't think twice about it and will end up with two dead snakes.

Time for me to learn to ignore things, I guess.

I hear ya, I just feel a novice keeper sticking around these forums and learning the right way to care for them is better than if they end up going someplace else where the advice may not be any good.

hmm

I also house my 2 corns together... the only difference is... mine were BOTH baught from a respectable breeder are brothers same age size and sex AND have a VERRY large living space... a 180Gal breeder with a second "story" built in with an extra hide basking spot... therers aprox 15 hiding spots... scatterd thurout the whole viv.. the tank is heated with TWO 40gal size UTH... side by side... the temps stay at 76 at cool end and 88 at warm end...despite the fact of being SOO many hides on both warm and cool side.. i see the snakes together quite a bit..... even when theres identical hides in the same temp zone...

so if they dont have ANY Feelings and they DONT like others company Why would they be in the SAME hide.. when as i said theres 3+ others with same shape size and warmth/coolness? just my two cents..

RyanR said:

so if they dont have ANY Feelings and they DONT like others company Why would they be in the SAME hide.. when as i said theres 3+ others with same shape size and warmth/coolness? just my two cents..

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Because no two hides are exactly the same. If you have two hides on the warm side they will both hold heat differently and therefore be different temperatures. It might only be half a degree but to an ectothermic animal that's a lot. Not to mention they might like one over another because it makes them feel more secure. Now granted, a 180 gal breeder is a huge tank for two corns, it would've been better IMO to divide it and have two tanks in one. It is possible to keep two corns together - just not advisable based upon lots of experience from many people. Just my .02

~Katie

Just because two snakes prefer the same hide doesn't mean they LIKE each other. My king and my amel both have the same kind of hide in each of their tanks (no, they are NOT together), and both show preference for it. However, if I were to put them together, they would definitely not get along.

:headbang:

Why post these threads? A simple search shows you how people think about this. :twohammer

Simple analogy...did you ever really WANT to share a room with a sibling? I never knew anyone who did. Give the snakes their own rooms.

Anyone notice that the poster of this thread has not been back since. Some of these replies were a little harsh, I thought. A simple "do a search" would have been sufficient, as opposed to a mass attack. What works for one, may or may not work for the other one. And yes, I've housed corns together in the past. Sorry, but I think our goal here should be to help, not intimidate. :wavey: