Regurgatation problem

My snake had an unfortunate regurgitation experience tonight and I'm concerned about it. I got her last week and she was about 10" and slender. the breeder told me she had last eaten the previous Monday and that I could feed her this Monday. I was planning to feed her a thawed frozen pinkie but after trying all of my local pet stores, they were all out of frozen pinkies, so I got her a live one. The breeder told me he was feeding her live ones since he raises his own mice.

She readily ate the live pinkie. The pinkie did look a bit big for he but she was able to make short work of it. I am wondering if the pinkie may have been too large and difficult to digest.

I know she needs heat for good digestion so that night I left the night glo moonlight lamp (question on this coming in the husbandry forum) on all night to heat the warm side of her 10 gal glass aquarium. It was 82 deg on the paper towel right under the light. During the day I switched to a basking light maintaining about the same temp on the warm side floor.

On Tuesday night she chose to leave her cardboard tube and go under the paper towel on the cold side (about 70 deg) and there she has stayed since. I thought the cold would be poor for digestion but since she chose it I let her be. She did have the potion of being in the cardboard on the cool side so I thought it was odd that the went under the towels to the cool glass.

After I fed her Monday I did not handle her until Thursday night because I wanted her to digest. By Thursday the size of her lump had gone down quite a bit but she did not defecate in the tank yet. I took her out Thursday and she seemed agreeable to it. She defecated while crawling on my lap and I thought that everything was ok with her. I was happy that mice were going in one end and coming out the other.

I put her back in the tank after about a half hour with the light for heat but she still chose the cool side in the corner under the paper towel. It seems she wanted to be cold and I wondered if she might be trying to brumate.

Tonight, Friday I came home and found her still under the paper towel. I took her out and she seemed a bit sluggish at first, I figured from being cold and not going to heat up. the she crawled around my hands and wanted to explore. She defecated again, this time on my shirt. A little while later as I was putting her back in the tank she opened her mouth wide as if yawning and I could see a slight bulge coming up. She threw up what was left of the pinkie she ate Monday and I was quite sad to see that happen.

From what I read it sounds like I should not even attempt to feed her for at least 7 days? I think she did get some nutrition from the pinkie she threw up as she defecated 2x and it looks like shes gained about 2 inches in length this week, about 12" now.

I'm thinking the cause of the regurge was 1 or a combination of:

Too large of a pinkie for her

Too cold after eating(which for some unknown reason she chose)

Too much handling (even though I waited 48 hours after feeding).She seems agreeable to the handling so I did not think it was causing her stress. She does not fuss when I take her out of the tank and she flicks her tongue a lot checking everything out when I have her out so it seems like she's exploring.

To hopefully fix this situation I will feed her a thawed frozen pinkie next time and I'm thinking of cutting it in half if it's the same size as that last one. As far as the after feeding temperature I don't know? I provide her heat but if she refuses it what to do? An interesting note is that after the regurge she became quite active and moved around her tank with vigor and stretching upward as if wanting to come back out. Also after the regurge she is no longer hiding under the paper towel on the coolest part of the tank. Now she is back in her tube about mid tank with the moonlight lamp heating the floor to 84 degrees on the warm side. I'm hoping that it was just too big of a pinky and she feels better now that it's out. Maybe she went to the cold because she wanted to regurgitate it? When it comes to handling after feeding I'm thinking that instead of just waiting 48 hours to wait until the deification shows up in the tank before handling her? Is there usually only 1 defecation per feeding or multiple defecations? This time there was 2 defecations and a regurgitation. Was the pinky too big?

Any suggestions would be appreciated. I want to give my snake the best home possible but now I feel badly because I may have unwittingly her her down.

Don't worry too much. You haven't let her down.

Read the regurge FAQ and follow that. If I were you, I would provide her more hides on the warm side. Wait 10 days after the regurge for the next feed and don't handle her at all. After 10 days, Feed her a small food item. Don't handle her at all until she's got a couple of successful feeds under her belt. I've got a little one who regurged on Nov. 12. He's had 4 successful feeds since then and he'd had 13 successful feeds before the regurge (so he's quite used to handling and his home), but I'm still going easy on the handling. Also, order some NutriBac from www.cornutopia.com. It will last you forever and it's really comforting to have it on hand when you need it.

Just a small point, but I always wait three days to handle, or untill there is a nice sized poo in the vivarium.

Even if you've handled your snake fine in the past two days after eating, that doesnt mean that when you make the meal size bigger that your snake can digest it within the same time frame, at least at first anyways, so you have to allow a little longer.

Desertanimal pretty much covered everything. The only additional thing I would suggest is to ditch the lamps and get an under tank heater. They are preferred for many reasons, not the least of which is that they provide the belly heat necessary to enable proper digestion. This topic has come up recently. Look for a thread entitled "Lamp vs. UTH" or something similar.

Also, what are you using to measure the temps, and where are you putting it?

Thanks desertanimal. I'll follow the FAQ. I'll also check out the Nutri Bac. I've never heard of it so I'll look it up. I have a lot to learn being a new snake owner.

Thanks TW, point well taken. I think in the future I'll wait for the poo before handling her. I'm going to stay hands off for a while now so I can get her past this nasty regurge episode. That's going to be tough for me because she's so beautiful and fascinating.

Becky thanks for the replies. I think I will try another UTH and put it on a thermostat. I must have gotten a bad one the first time out. I'm using a digital thermometer with the sensor on the florr of the warm side, on top of the paper towel substrate. I also have a mechanical T Rex thermometer but instead of sticking it on the glass I move it around on the floor for spot temps, mainly on the cool side.

Sounds like you did everything you should have but it might have been one of those things. I have had one regurge in the years I've kept these critters and I was never able to determine what caused it. It never happened again either. It may never happen again with yours as well. Lets hope so anyway! If you feed the f/t, try putting a few cuts across the back to aid in digestion. Can't do that with a live one of course, but the f/t I always cut.

Meg, it's god to hear that it was a one time occurance with yours. I hope it's the same for mine. I keep thinking about what could have gone wrong and I'm starting to think that the heat wasn't as much of an issue as the handling. My corn snake and rat snake book said not to handle for 48 hrs after feeding so I followed that but then handled her Thursday and Friday thinking that the pinky was digested after 48 hrs but apparantly it wasn't. So I think I have to limit the handling more.

I routinely handle mine 48 hrs after so the advice was not incorrect. Perhaps she needed a little more time to digest a larger food item though. As far as temperature, mine digest on the cool side quite often, and sometimes in the winter the cool side will be into the upper 60's without any problems. I think it was just one of those things. If it happens more than once, I would perhaps take it to a vet to have it checked for some health problem. Maybe save the regurge in the fridge for the vet to do a check on it. Perhaps a swab to see if there is some adverse bacteria or something. You might also want to try a little grapefruit seed extract in the water. I use 2-3 drops per 8 oz. of water and then use it to change daily. I would make sure (if you don't already) to change the water daily to make sure there is no bacteria buildup present. I suspect that this was just a bad luck sort of thing. I just made sure I reduced any kind of stress on my animal. Took out the substrate and fed in her viv, covered it afterwards to keep any unnecessary stressors out and gave her ample time to digest. I also fed a smaller than usual food item for at least 3 feedings before resuming her normal feed size. Let us know how yours does.

http://tinyurl.com/tk44v

In case anyone else was wondering what the grapefruit seed extract was for!

Nanci