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2 viv questions

Gintha said:
I'm 100% against animal testing.. can test drugs on living tissue of dead people (Aren't life support systems great?) =)
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This simply won't work.

Gintha said:
if you've SEEN what they do to those poor test animals you'd be the same way.. how'd you like to be cut open with no pain killers? Or have your brain exposed and disected while you're still alive?
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This is a bit exaggerated.
 
I think cka's rheostat is pretty cool. getting a nice thermometer with a probe on it cost me $30 and then made a rheostat. when I froogled the rheostat by zoomed, came up $25.
 
Gintha said:
I'm 100% against animal testing.. can test drugs on living tissue of dead people (Aren't life support systems great?) And with the number of criminals "put to death" for their crimes in a year.. theres PLENTY of corpses to go around =P And I can recommend a few people for live testing (mwa ha ha.. PERFECT thing for ex's huh? =P) Not as nuts as I sound.. if you've SEEN what they do to those poor test animals you'd be the same way.. how'd you like to be cut open with no pain killers? Or have your brain exposed and disected while you're still alive? The Canadian section of PETA that I belong to is against crap like that.. not the no animals in captivity thing.. heck.. people (for the most part) give better lives to animals than nature does. As for non-animal tested shampoos.. Pantene is 100% non-animal tested.. all of its ingrdients... I have the chemical anaysis here with around 40 signatures to back that (Did a paper for GP and needed the chem an. for my allergies =/)

Sorry for the blerb =P As you can see, am very passionate about animals =)
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i work in medicine, im in nursing school and i see a lot of sickness.. and i have dissected animals.. dead animals. I also know how much research goes into giving animals drugs to see the effects, and using it on dead tissue just doesn't work the same as on live tissue. You have to see the long term effects to see if its really safe. Part of the research is giving the mouse the drug over an extended amount of time and monitoring for things like Cancer. They have to make sure it doesnt kill them or cause cancer before they start preforming trials on people. Or would you just like to take a drug that has only been tested on dead tissue? Would you want to be in the test group for a drug to help monitor your blood pressure and then fall over from hypotension? Or die of a heart attack because they have no idea what its going to do to a living being?

I believe in ethicle treatement of animals, don't get me wrong, but if you are going to go that far, we kill bugs and pests in our houses. Is that wrong or unethicle? ANd frankly i don't care if cosmetics are tested on animals, what do i care if they wash a cat with people shampoo just to see if it invokes an allergic reaction??? I have 4 cats, i love them and i baby them.. and take care of them. But some people just go to the extreme.
 
ashleynicole said:
i work in medicine, im in nursing school and i see a lot of sickness.. and i have dissected animals.. dead animals. I also know how much research goes into giving animals drugs to see the effects, and using it on dead tissue just doesn't work the same as on live tissue. You have to see the long term effects to see if its really safe. Part of the research is giving the mouse the drug over an extended amount of time and monitoring for things like Cancer. They have to make sure it doesnt kill them or cause cancer before they start preforming trials on people. Or would you just like to take a drug that has only been tested on dead tissue? Would you want to be in the test group for a drug to help monitor your blood pressure and then fall over from hypotension? Or die of a heart attack because they have no idea what its going to do to a living being?
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Good point about time but it is only one factor. Even if time weren't an issue, there are basic in vivo physiological parmaeters that can affect a drug's performance. Those parameters cannot be simulated in vitro, and that's why in vivo testing is considered necessary by the FDA.

If you're worried about ethical treatment of the animals, google Institutional Animal Care and Use Committees (IACUC).
 
In addition, a lot of the time what happens in vitro does not happen in vivo. A lot of people in biotech/pharmaceutical companies don't seem to know this, let alone the general public. A petri dish is an extremely controlled environment compared to a living organism's body.
 
I'm using the Herpstat proportional from mg reptiles for my Green Tree Python, but I've never found I need a very accurate one for my corns. They just aren't as suseptible to temp changes. A relatively cheap on/off thermostat will work admirably for your corns.
 
Not to sound rude, but if you dont have the means to take care of your animals(and your home) safley then you should look for another hobby.....
 
Of course I have the means but don't need to spend so much money on it. I got my whole set up for less than $100, including 40gallon tank and baby corn. $67 for the rheostat alone is asking waaaaayyyyy too much.
 
i agree it doesn't have to be an expensive hobby.. i spent less than $100 bucks on my basic set up INCLUDING the snake. Of course i only have a 10 gallon so i will have to upgrade, but i have time to save for that as mine is just a baby. I don't think looking for a cheaper more economical alternative is a bad thing.
 
"I don't think looking for a cheaper more economical alternative is a bad thing." I agree 100%, thats why we run sales on the good stuff..lol. I can remember when I firest started and everthing was so expensive.. The units for 67.00 are not rheostats they are thermostats we sale dimmers for 8 bucks:)
 
I take it those are US prices.. in which case WAY too spendy for an unemlpoyed Canadian university student =P (Yes unemployed, am in classes 14 hours a day.. NO time for work) Is there no way to regulate the temp in her tank without spending $200? (Yes I read the 'make a rheostat for $7'... and was told by 2 peeps that it sounds like a major fire hazard... an electrician and a mechitronical engineer... so I assume they know what they are talking about hehe)
 
Dimmers can be ok if wired correctly.. The only problem with them is the fluctation of the heating element with the flux of the room temp. Also if their is a problem with the heating element the dimmer will continue to pump power to it and a fire could spring out of it.. A thermostat will shut off the power if that happens.. Trust me I know how you feel money is tight everyehere I beleive...
 
you can get pre-made rheostats for a couple bucks more. flux of the room can be regulated with the rheostat.
 
i have a thermometer with the probe inside the hide on the warm side. flux isn't that great but when it does, i turn the dimmer up/down.
 
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