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Amel lava motley, Ice ghost motley and snow lava motley

Carlos

Carlos

New member
Guys check on this clutch, those are from a lava X Anery het lava that I get from Joe, This is the second season breeding them and I have a big surprise, An a lava snow motley and amel lava motley. ENJOY.
I will post individual pictures as soon they shedd. I know that I need a better camara, but for now I have to use what I have,LOL
 

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WOW! Nice job Carlos! Congrats!!!!

Are they true motleys with clear bellies?
I've popped up some nice surprises in the past as well that dealt with the motley look and Joe says there is not motley in the ancestry....

HMMMMMMM

The plot thickens.....
 
For sure at this time I'm really know what a motley is, this is the e-mail from Joe when I tell him about those:

From: "Joe Pierce" <[email protected]> Add to Address Book
Date: 2005/08/08 Mon AM 12:36:31 EDT
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: ACR

I have never produce a Motley from that line, but I may have just not
matched up the right pair. I used an Amel het Snow X Lava to start that
line and if she was het for Motley too, then she would have passed on the
Motley gene to half of her offspring. Perhaps I have just never matched up
the right pair.

Did you have any other eggs in the container from a different pair of snakes
that were carrying the Motley gene? I know that I keep several clutches in
the same incubation container and sometimes I get them mixed up. Now a days,
I try to only put clutches together that will all look different.

Does this Snow Motley have a good Motley pattern?

Man if this is true, I need to get a Lava Motley from Jeff and breed it to a
bunch of my Lavas and see which ones are carrying the gene. I remember a few years ago that I sold some normals from my Hets for Snow Motley pairings to a pet store that raised them up and they said they produced Motleys too. I thought that I must have mixed up the Normals from that clutch with Normals het for Motley from a different clutch, but maybe not.....

Anyway I will be posting pictures of those motleys as soon they shedd and eat few times.
 
If these are indeed from "those are from a lava X Anery het lava ", you DID get a surprise! What you shoud have gotten was 50% lava het anery, & 50% normal het for ice ghost!
 
Yes, but the lava male is het for Snow and the Anery is het Lava and amel, and BOTH are het for Motley.
 
Congrats Carlos!

lol, ok, i'm english... what is the genetic make up of an ice ghost?, and what is a lava corn?
Click to expand...
Lava is a recessive gene that creates a more extreme "hypo-like" appearance. Ice is the ghost-like combination of lava and good-old anery. There are now ice corns (lava anery) as well as lava motleys, lava lavs, and lava charcoals. Other combinations are in the works. :)
 
Ok Could somoene point out which ones are Lava's?? Thanks Sorry if I sound dumb, but I never saw Lava before, or not knowingly!


Thanks
Amanda
 
Awesome job Carlos! Glad to see there are finally some new things popping up with the lava line! Now when you want to get rid of some of those hets... lol :)

Keep the updates coming! :)
 
There are genes at about 50 loci that are involved in parts of the process of making melanin. Ultra, Lava, Hypo, and Sunkissed are mutants at 4 different loci. :)

So even if they "look the same," the underlying genes causing them are not the same, and they are inherited separately/independently from each other. Lavas and ultramels have less malenin than other hypo-like corns, but IMO Lava and Ultra don't look similar, at least in the examples I've seen. But even if they did look the same, it would still be necessary to use different names so we know which individuals are compatible with each other. :)
 
Congratulations Carlos!
We knew your Lava was het for Snow from your breedings last year and we knew the Anery was het for Lava, but this clutch is a surprise. All of the Corns from this line are poss het for Amel, but I can not explain the Motley gene in the mix.

I did a little record searching, since the email that you posted here, and learned that I bred the Amel het Anery, that I started the Ice line with, to Motley males in four different years and never produced a Motley from her. She laid a total of 143 eggs from Motley males and not one Motley was produced. She is not het for Motley, so if this genotype is actually Motley and not a look-a-like gene, then it was contained within the wild line the Lavas came from all along.

Just because these Corns look like the Motley phenotype does not mean that they are necessarily the Motley genotype. I do not know if the “Motleys” that the pet store produced were ever test bred to Motleys to see if they were compatible. At this time, I have no idea how the Motley gene got into this line, since the Amel that started the line has been test bred to Motley and was not carrying the gene and the line the Lavas came from has been reported to trace back to wild caught Corns.

From your photos, I can see an Ice Corn with the Motley pattern and it appears there may be a couple of them. I can also clearly see an Amel Lavas head poking up in the middle of the clutch. Its white areas are orange and its blotches are light orange instead of red like the Amel Okeetees from this line.

The Snows are obvious too, but I do not see how you could know that your Snow Motley from this clutch is also homo for Lava. I have never proven any Snows that came from this line to be homo for Lava so I don’t know what they look like. I have produced Snows from this line that look like Corals and some that look like Blizzards and many in-between the two, so which ones are homo for Lava? I test bred an in-between Snow female this year to a Lava het Amel and she was not carrying the Lava gene in any way, so there is one down and a few to go. There is only a 50% chance that any Snows from your mating are homo for Lava so I am not sure that you could be certain which ones are homo for Lava.

There is another thing about this clutch that is very cool. All of them are het for Lava and Anery, or Ice if your prefer.
 
Wow, that's quite a revelation! So it looks like:

A- The female amel was het motley BUT did not throw a single motley out of 143 eggs.

B- The lava male (is that Old Man Lava?) is/was het motley (or a new motley-look-alike) and it just never happened to pop up until now.

C- There was a spontaneous mutation at some point (to motley, or to a new motley-look-alike)

Given the above, I can now see why you were asking about the belly. Before I was thinking, "well duh, it's gonna have a motley belly... " eh? LOL

So now it looks like we have another 1 year or longer wait to confirm if this is or is not THE motley... I think it's safe to say that if it's a look-alike that it's still likely heritable in the same mode as motley since it popped out of normally-patterned parents and there are more than one in each clutch.

Joe, is the Lava who fathered this ball of fun still with us? Can he also be tested next year? :D
 
Serpwidgets said:
Joe, is the Lava who fathered this ball of fun still with us? Can he also be tested next year? :D
Click to expand...
Carlos still owns the Lava het Snow that fathered this clutch. His ACR # is 2028. I just looked though some of my old emails from him and he already test bred this Lava to several Motleys and no Motleys were produced. In his excitement, he must have forgot about the Lava X Motley projects that he started last year. Here are a few lines from some of his emails that reference the male Lava that fathered this clutch being bred to Motleys last year.

My LavaXcaramel motley just start hatchling, few amel showing up and some other normals. What a surprise my 2 caramel motleys females are het butter.
Click to expand...
Hey Joe. This is what I have so far on the Lava projects,
Lava/caramel motley
Lava/ anery motley
Lava/Bloodred
Lava/pewter
Lava/lavender
het lava-charcoal
Lava/banded motley
Lava/christmas
Click to expand...
Hey Joe. I have few more clutches from the male Lava.
Bloodred/Lava (13 eggs)
Anery Motley/Lava (12 eggs)
caramel Motley/ Lava (15 egss)
Pewter/ Lava (8 eggs)
Lavender/Lava is due at any time now.
I'm waiting in some more clutches from the HYPOS projects, I let you know.
Click to expand...
My Caramel motley and Anery motley are het for Ame.(and I don't know that) what a surprise when the amel. show up in both clutcles.LOL.LOL
Click to expand...
Hey Joe. From the anery motley Xlava, I have 2 snows, 3 amelanistic and 6 normals. The bloodredxlava just starting hatch, 3 normals out 9 to go. Later. Carlos
Click to expand...
I let you know, with them I have het for lavender,bloodred, anery motley,caramel motley and pewters all het for lava too.Keep in contact. Carlos
Click to expand...
 
Well Last year I use the anery het lava female to test the Chrismas for the hypo project, and I don't breed her with any other because she throw the egg too late,Anyway I breed the lava male to a bloodred, pewter, anery motley and caramel motley so I will have some males ready next year to test that anery female and some females to test the male lava. I will be posting pictures as they grow. Heck another motley morph? I don't even want to think in that. LOL
 
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Joe, if they aren't motleys what they are? motley pattern. Heck is smeel like ****, look like ****, them what is it? LOL

But you are right now that I check the babies that I hold from the last season I don't see any motley and really I keep 74 of them. Now I can't sale any of those from this clutch either
 
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So if I have this right, #2028 is a lava het snow, who last year bred to anery motley and caramel motley (how many eggs?) and produced NO motleys. This year #2028 bred to a lava-line female and produced the snow motleys and ice motleys in these pics?

Wow, I guess this is looking more and more like a new mimic of motley.

Heh, now I'm wondering what Jeff's lines from this year trace back to? If he's producing lava motleys, did he originally cross lava X Motley in his project? (I assumed so since he expected lava motleys... ?)

Joe, looking back at 2028's ancestors, his grandparents are that rev Okeetee and Old Man Lava. I also noticed that our male lava (Moses) shares the same father as 2028...
 
Serp. You have that correct, this is what hach from those projects last year:
Anery MotleyXLava (12)
Caramel MotleyX Lava (15)
 
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