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Animal Cruelty or Art Form?

Choices are great and allowing someone to determine what is best despite our own feelings is plain wrong within reason. This is a fence sitter and not something I condone or would do for know reason, but I don't see this becoming the next big trend thank god.

Yeah. I mean there's a lot of things people do to animals that I think "Gosh what an idiot that owner is."

Case in point, anyone ever see the lady who is so obsessed with the color pink that she bought a Maltese and has it dyed pink every few weeks? I think what a freak, but I value her right to be a freak because it means I can keep being a freak with my snakes. If that makes sense... it sounded better in my head. :headbang:
 
You want to see some crazy stuff look up "creative grooming"

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I'll be cropping just about any breed I own if it's traditionally done, and without remorse. Then again, I would work any purebred dog I bought, so there would likely be a benefit to them. I laugh hysterically at boxers or Dobes with their ears cropped so tall they flop over while they walk... that has nothing to do with function and any dog of mine would have a working, practical crop. It cracks me up when people say, "I only agree with it for the showing," like it makes a difference to dog. I'm sure he'll be more ok with because he got some ribbons. On the other, I'm fairly certain a big game dog would appreciate NOT having his ears shredded by a wild boar.

Hey, at least my dogs will get to keep their natural sex organs and hormones (at least) until they're physically and mentally mature. No unnecessary castration here. :D (Oh yes, I went there...)

I wouldn't tattoo a cat, but if it's done under anesthesia and with proper after care I honestly can't say it bothers me. If kitty gets food, a warm bed, and a visit to the vet once a year, I'll mind my own business.

And if we're still circumcising little boys without their permission, cropping and docking had better remain up to the owner. Routine circumcision better go before cropping and docking do. (The "medical benefits" of circumcision are by and large medical myth/propaganda or negated by simple hygiene, and unlike animals, kids grow up and have rights to their own body and can wonder, "Why?")

That's my piece; have at me! :rofl:

:sidestep:
 
You know, I've actually seen dogs that have gotten too close to wild boar. It wasn't their floppy ears that were bothering them.
 
I guess a ton of arguements can made for cropping or not cropping. Growing up we had dobes and labs; and our dobes were always cropped while the labs weren't. I take no issue with it at all.

To play devils advocate however, working dogs don't have a say in whether they work or not and a wild boar could just as easily shred a cropped ear opposed to a floppy one. The docking of the tail I can see as beneficial, but some may argue working a dog and putting it in a dangerous position so its owner can shoot game is just as cruel. My labs were always my dads hunting dogs and were never injured so don't think I take issue with using a dog as a hunting implement either; but you see where these issues sit right up on that fence.

Aesthetically speaking I happen to prefer dobes cropped and docked while other breeds I prefer intact. I also waited until both of my dogs were a year to spay/neuter them because there is a health benefit in allowing them to mature in these ways and produce certaine hormones. My son is also circumcized because his father insisted and I still think its the dumbest thing ever, but its a man thing I guess so I gave him that choice. Its extremely painful though and these babies are fully awake and aware. Their whole package turns bright purple and stays looking mutilated for weeks.
 
How many of you have cats claws removed? if you want to open a can of worms, Open that one, I think de clawing is FAR worse than any tattoo, Pick your battles... do you think that cat would rather be tattoo'd and go through a few days pain, and live what im sure is a lavish life? or be one of the millions waiting for the needle in shelters?

Come on people, get your head out of your ass.. there are ALOT worse things.. :headbang:
 
I disagree with declawing cats(I have 3 cats all with their claws). I also disagree with ear cropping, but not so much tail docking. I have read where people are actually piercing their cats ears as well as tattooing them and yes I find that to be very much animal cruelty.
 
Just imagine what you could tattoo on a corn snake. You could make some neatly designed snows.

But, alas, I don't find it particularly nice to do to a snake so I won't personally do it.

Banning it...that really IS a slippery slope.

What happens when the free range snake coalition tries to ban rack systems?
 
At one clinic I worked in, there was a Pit Bull with a daisy tattooed on her thigh. The owner was careful about it, and I did get to see her during the healing process...it didn't seem to bother her a bit. The owners kept a bit of topical anesthetic on it until it was healed so she wasn't uncomfortable.

I'd like to have my dog tattooed for ID purposes, so I can't really object to this too much. It seems silly, but much better than the piercing of pets which I'm seeing more and more of here. One little Boston terrier had a double industrial type piercing in both ears, and I have to wonder how long it's going to take her to tear one out when she scratches.

I don't care for declawing either, but I do NOT want to see it banned...we did one four-foot declaw in a clinic I was in because the poor cat had such friable skin that she was literally tearing herself open when she scratched herself too vigorously. If declawing was banned, what would have happened to her?
 
You know, I've actually seen dogs that have gotten too close to wild boar. It wasn't their floppy ears that were bothering them.

I'm talking a dog bred to hunt big game, not dogs that wander up having no idea what they're doing and get gutted.

While they're in the hunt, nothing's bothering these dogs; they live for grappling with the boar. However, I've seen plenty of Dogo Argentinos with their ears left hanging that came out with the ears sliced up from tusks.
 
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One little Boston terrier had a double industrial type piercing in both ears, and I have to wonder how long it's going to take her to tear one out when she scratches./QUOTE]

That is my concern about piercing too - that it will be torn out. If it were not for that, I wouldn't take issue with it.
 
At one clinic I worked in, there was a Pit Bull with a daisy tattooed on her thigh. The owner was careful about it, and I did get to see her during the healing process...it didn't seem to bother her a bit. The owners kept a bit of topical anesthetic on it until it was healed so she wasn't uncomfortable.

I'd like to have my dog tattooed for ID purposes, so I can't really object to this too much. It seems silly, but much better than the piercing of pets which I'm seeing more and more of here. One little Boston terrier had a double industrial type piercing in both ears, and I have to wonder how long it's going to take her to tear one out when she scratches.

I don't care for declawing either, but I do NOT want to see it banned...we did one four-foot declaw in a clinic I was in because the poor cat had such friable skin that she was literally tearing herself open when she scratched herself too vigorously. If declawing was banned, what would have happened to her?

With the advent of microchipping, why would you feel the need to tattoo your dog for id purposes?
 
With the advent of microchipping, why would you feel the need to tattoo your dog for id purposes?

I can't speak for Cathy, but many people have concerns about the safety of microchipping (possible cancer concerns) as well as the lack of a universal chip reader, etc.
 
With the advent of microchipping, why would you feel the need to tattoo your dog for id purposes?
I've heard of long dogs and lurchers being stolen to order at game fairs and country shows over here, so it's common to have 'I'm spayed and microchipped' on their collar to try to prevent it, I wouldn't be surprised if some are tattooed too for the same purpose, not for the cosmetics. I'm getting Rosie the 'spayed and chipped' tag as soon as she's spayed.
 
I'm talking a dog bred to hunt big game, not dogs that wander up having no idea what they're doing and get gutted.

While they're in the hunt, nothing's bothering these dogs; they live for grappling with the boar. However, I've seen plenty of Dogo Argentinos with their ears left hanging that came out with the ears sliced up from tusks.
Well, I have only seen dogs who were trained but not bred to hunt boars. Still, I simply don't believe that cropping a dog's ears will make it significantly less likely to come out of a hog hunt with significantly fewer injuries. I think it's hogwash. ;)

I wouldn't crop my own dog's ears, and I also wouldn't send him into a boar hunt. But it doesn't really matter. I have lived long enough in third world countries to see enough starving pets that I entertain no illusions about utopian pet life. We domesticated them to serve our purposes, and we continue to do so, even if those purposes are frivolous. I'm quite sure that those puppies with hurting cropped ears, warm places to sleep, and full bellies are a lot happier than those in the world with empty bellies, hurting dog fight wounds, illnesses, heavy ectoparasite and endoparasite loads, no warm places to sleep, and no one who says a kind word to them.
 
With the advent of microchipping, why would you feel the need to tattoo your dog for id purposes?

Almost all working dogs are tattooed. With puppies that typically start in the $1000-$2000 range (non imported) and trained adults around $4000-$10,000 (again non imported), it's easier to remove a chip than to remove a tattoo. At competitions when they are verifying that your dog is who you say it is, you think they can afford to have a scanner for the chip? It's quick and easy to ID the tattoos. Kriger is a good 10 feet from me right now yet I can clearly read his tattoo... couldn't do that with a chip. It is also quick and cheap to do. Almost all breeders do it themselves as the puppies are being born. That and what Emily said; there are concerns of a link between the microchips and cancer.
 
Well, I have only seen dogs who were trained but not bred to hunt boars. Still, I simply don't believe that cropping a dog's ears will make it significantly less likely to come out of a hog hunt with significantly fewer injuries. I think it's hogwash. ;)

Well sorry to burst your bubble but it's true.
 
Can someone explain how that is? My mom has a hellion of a dogo Ruby with undocked ears and tail. Ears while floppy are maybe 3 inches long and while docked are not much shorter, but upright. However, a boar can shread a whole lot more than an ear and the position of that ear erect or not leaves it as a target with an inch or so not seemingly enough to make a difference. I happen to like the docked look of dobes but its purely cosmetic IMO and has no working function that I know of. Educate me a little here what am I missing?
 
Can someone explain how that is? My mom has a hellion of a dogo Ruby with undocked ears and tail. Ears while floppy are maybe 3 inches long and while docked are not much shorter, but upright. However, a boar can shread a whole lot more than an ear and the position of that ear erect or not leaves it as a target with an inch or so not seemingly enough to make a difference. I happen to like the docked look of dobes but its purely cosmetic IMO and has no working function that I know of. Educate me a little here what am I missing?

I'm honestly not trying to justify anything here, merely relate to you what I've read. As many know, I have a Doberman and yes, his ears are cropped, and yes, I did it for cosmetic reasons. That was my decision and I did everything in my power to make sure he had the shortest healing time (pet crop) and experienced as little pain as possible. If you disagree, that's certainly fine and I surely hope you don't think less of me for my decision of ear cropping. :[

As for functionality, I believe when the breed was first being established, the tails were docked to prevent one less thing for attackers to break/injure and ears were cropped to enhance sound localization. Dobermans were/still are used for protection and search and rescue, so that's been the stated reason behind it. I have seen Dobermans with undocked tails and they appear very fragile and have heard that they run a higher risk of fractures do to the length and whip-like width. Whether there is any truth in any of this, I'm not positive.
 
Can someone explain how that is? My mom has a hellion of a dogo Ruby with undocked ears and tail. Ears while floppy are maybe 3 inches long and while docked are not much shorter, but upright. However, a boar can shread a whole lot more than an ear and the position of that ear erect or not leaves it as a target with an inch or so not seemingly enough to make a difference. I happen to like the docked look of dobes but its purely cosmetic IMO and has no working function that I know of. Educate me a little here what am I missing?

Daniel, properly cropped ears are MUCH shorter than natural ones in dogos.

Look, stupid show crop:

DogoArgentinokilochest8mos.jpg


Real working crop:

dogo_argentino_h01.jpg


The idea, at least in dogos, is to leave enough ear that it can be flattened over the canal while running to protect from brambles, etc, but be short enough that there is little for a boar's tusk to snag. The dogo grabs the hog by the ear or face and pins it down - while making the catch, the hog is going to be slashing side to side with sharp tusks. Cropped ears are short and firm, allowing the dog to pin the ears back against the head, protecting them from unnecessary damage. They do not flop around at all.

But if you're trying to say that this kind of nonsense offers no protection, then I'll agree totally.

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